590A1 Magazine Tube Spring

[brisendines]

I dunno... I didn't figure they would coat the insides! Mine is not marinecote... I did clean all the shipping grease out of the tube...

 

[Walt NVA]

Good information about the Wolff springs.

I just sent my 590A-1 to Mossberg's gunsmith for warranty service. I acquired it March 2003 (new) with the Vang Comp System and a SF 623FA tac light (recently added a Malkoff M60L but had to stretch the M60L spring). I recently added a Tac Star side saddle.

Even though the 590A-1 hasn't been fired much, it no longer loads a shell from the tube into the chamber -- buckshot or slugs (Hornady, Federal, Winchester).

I have been to the Sig-Sauer and Remington armorer schools and have been a LEO for a number of years; I reasonably know my way around weapons. At Mossberg's advice, I removed the barrel, trigger assembly, bolt slide, bolt assembly, elevator, cartridge stop, cartridge interrupter, and the Surefire forearm assembly. I did a thorough cleaning (not that it needed it) and applied small amounts of Militec-1 lubricant at the friction points. Upon reassembly and a proper function test, the feeding issue remained and has became worse.

The magazine spring seemed a bit sluggish when pressing the magazine follower. I just ordered a stainless steel mag tube follower and will wait to see what Mossberg says. I suspect either a faulty cartridge stop and/or mag tube spring.

An excellent video for takedown of a Mossberg 500/590A-1 is:
http://www.gunslot.com/videos/mossberg-500-590-disassembly-assembly
Here is what the Mossberg is capable of using Fed Tactical 00 Buck LE-132 (2 shells/25 yds/pre-Flight Control Wad):
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/w_daniel/Mossberg590A1VCSFedTactical13200.jpg

So that I understand, will a Wolff spring require trimming for the 590A-1 magazine tube since it's a 5 shell capacity?

 

[brisendines]

I believe that they offer one specifically for your gun, but I would give their 40" generic 12 guage spring a try- I feel the main weakness of the stock spring are the tapered ends. That would fix that problem- also, the stock spring is quite a bit smaller than the bore of tha magazine tube, which allows it to corkscrew under load. I would imagine that the other spring would fix this, and it would almost certainly be larger guage wire which would fix the third problem with the spring. I wish Mossberg would have just done it correctly the first time. If you have a friend or you yourself have an 870, you could try that spring- I have heard it works. If so, the follower would be better as well.

 

[Walt NVA]

Thanks for the reply and the advice. This has become an education on the Mossberg mag tube springs, albeit the hard way. I wholeheartedly agree that Mossberg should have done it right the first time and/or should switch to a new spring vendor to alleviate the issue. Overall, I'm impressed with my 590A-1 -- when it's fully functional. We have the Rem 870 and 11-87 (along with the M4) at work, but it's easy for me to transition to the 590A-1 without any difficulty.

 

[MAX100]

So that I understand, will a Wolff spring require trimming for the 590A-1 magazine tube since it's a 5 shell capacity?

To put it out there plainly, the factory Mossberg spring & follower that comes with the 590 shotguns suck. The follower that comes with the 930 SPX is very high quality.

Get the Wolff 12Ga spring made for all 12Ga shotguns. It will be 40" long. Cut it to 28" and shape the ends but don't tapper them. Bend the top cut coil down closer to the lower coil and bend the cut end down even with the lower coil with needle nose pliers so it isn't sticking up.

By cutting it to 28" it will be long enough if you ever decide to add a mag tube extension to increase the capacity to 7+1.


GC

 

[brisendines]

Walt, You're lucky to retain the shotguns for duty. The local PD is allowed to carry LTL -OR- AR15. I would really prefer the men and women in blue maintain access of lethal force.

 

[ny32182]

Well, you are having the opposite experience that I did...

I had an 870 express that had major issues with failing to release shells from the tube. I eventually figured out that one of the shell release bars in the receiver was getting stuck in the outward position. I polished the edge it was getting stuck on, lubed it like hell, and it did run about 100 rounds without a problem after that, but I still sold it back to the dealer (told him about it of course).

After that I got a 590A1; it has functioned perfectly from day one, loaded with any number of shells... one of the things I like about it is that the tube design overall feels a lot better to me. Specifically, I like the monolithic mag tube rather than the 870's with the screw on extension, and cheap feeling ligature to support it. It just generally gives me the feeling that I could beat something with the front end of the 590 and it would not come apart.

If the follower is binding down the tube, I would think that either the tube, spring, or follower is way out of spec. Or maybe there is a big piece of debris in there. But it sounds like something that should be easily enough identified and corrected once it is apart.

 

[brisendines]

The follower isn't the problem, it seems to be doing its job and staying perpindicular to the tube axis, but the spring is able to snake around behind the follower. The 870 has an extension that goes into the spring from what I hear, and that would help the spring a little bit... (it should be the spring helping the follower, but with the mossberg's spring...)

 

[Walt NVA]

Thanks, I ordered some Wolff springs and will retrofit once I get the 590A-1 back from Mossberg's armorer. From what I've pieced together, I envision that Mossberg will definitely replace the mag tube spring and perhaps the cartridge stop. I recall that when I worked on the agency Rem 870's, the mag tube spring was under noticeable tension. (Incidentally, simply re-staking the Rem 870's usually resolved any issues, although issues were rare).

With my 590A-1, the mag tube spring did not have any tension and simply fell (poured) out after I removed the mag tube retainer.

Yes, I'm glad to have the shotguns for field use. Over 25 years ago, I recall some wise owl agency firearms instructors who preferred shotguns to full auto long guns or long guns with single trigger pull 3-round bursts. Same with several Vietnam Vet agency armorers who loved carrying a pump shotgun on jungle patrols. Their argument was 81 rounds of controlled precision fire (00 buck/9 pellets in each of 9 shells).

 

[Wanta B]

Hey all...

I just purchased my third 590A1 last week.After having been without one for the last several years it was time to get one again.Long story short,The other two were nothing if not AK-like reliable.This one is having the same magazine spring problem you have described...I do not recall the mag-springs being tapered as this one is.I have temperarily solved the problem by installing one of my extra Bennelli M3 Super 90 7shot spings.Works great but can only load 7 rounds...alomst 8.I will be trying those universal Wolffe springs!! Stainless follower sounds good too.

Regards
Wanta B

 

[RyanM]

Just out of curiosity, did you oil the follower or the inside of the tube at all? One time I made the mistake of oiling a Mossberg 500 follower just a bit, when loading shells felt a little gritty. The oil ended up making an airtight seal between the follower and tube, and suction would hold the follower back and make ejection of the last shell very sluggish.

 

[brisendines]

Nope, I took mine apart and cleaned the tube out. No change.

 

[Wanta B]

I completely cleaned mine when I got it home.SOP with all my firearms but tho's to be torture tested.

Just an idea here but what do you think about micro honeing the magazine then having it lightly coated with something like exhaust high-temp ceramic?

I was also thinking of putting longitudel grooves on the sides of the follower(not cut but "dented")...then maybe a very small hole or three drilled in the face of the follower for air passage even when it is lubed.A gentalman I know in Africa does the hole thing to all his shotguns...he only oils the followers when not in use for extended periods of time.

 

[brisendines]

Or Mossberg could design a gun that works....

 

[Wanta B]

My first two 590's NEVER failed!!

 

[MAX100]

Some shells are longer than (standard 2.25" before fired). The 590 is very tight on tube space and there is very little room to spare with 8 in the tube. The combination of adding a extra power longer spring and longer than standard shells can lower the capacity to 7+1.

The wolff extra power universal 12Ga springs allow the most room in the tube when cut too 26" to 28" long. The open end metal followers allow the most room in the tube when the spring is compressed. Solid end Hi Vis followers take away space and can cost you a round capacity.

Wolff offers a 590 spring similar to the factory spring and a universal 12Ga spring that is 40" long. You can cut it to length to fit your shotgun depending how long your mag tube is or tube extension. I prefer their universal 12Ga spring for the 590 because it is more reliable. You need to shape the end after cutting by bending the top down closer to the lower one so it doesn't stick up.

GC

 

[inSight-NEO]

After my first outing with my Mossberg 590 (8+1), I experienced several feed issues myself. Upon tearing it down for post-shooting cleaning, I noticed that the spring was bent/warped all to heck.

So, I simply followed the advice I received and purchased a handfull of Wolff 40" XD springs. Then, I cut one down to size, reshaped it just a bit and after that... problem solved.

Point is, dont necessarily judge a weapons overall quality/durability based simply on something like a bad spring. Sure, the spring used in the Mossbergs are not designed well (due to the tapered ends). But, if this is the main issue that is being experienced, its hardly worth brand dismissal IMHO.

 

[brisendines]

Its not something to totally dismiss a brand over, you're right. But I think we, as consumers, should continue to push for a weapon that works out of the box, every time.

 

[Wanta B]

brisendines--I could not agree more.I am quite dismayed at the poor performance of this one and then to find it is a common problem these days...along the same lines I have a DSA Para Elite that I ordered from them and after nearly a year and 2500.00 later (a couple of years before the current caziness) it hits 18"-20" low at around 25-30 meters!!!

Looking back at my reply...I meant to convey my DISmay at the quality of them this day in age,not that you did not have a point.


As to a KEY part being faulty...combat weapons and tires= NO excuses IMO.Lives depend on them and it is a well known failing.They should have changed them long ago,ie.when the problem became clear.They should work.(thats peroid.)We are talking reliable function,not a high strung compgun or race car.

 

[inSight-NEO]

But I think we, as consumers, should continue to push for a weapon that works out of the box, every time.

I agree completely. However, unfortunate as it is, I have somewhat come to expect less than perfect quality.

So, I can either quit buying weapons or do the best with what I get. I have several weapons, both shotguns and handguns, and almost all of them needed a bit of "tweaking/polishing" to get things to an acceptable level. Is this right? Not at all. But, it seems to be an ongoing trend these days. This goes for almost any weapon, whether its $300 or $3000.

The only weapon I own that came the closest to being "perfect" out of the box was my Benelli SNT. Even then, that thing had issues with the sights being way off as delivered. Oh well....

Either way, as has been mentioned numerous times before, if a simple spring swap is the key to reliability, consider yourself lucky. Dont get me wrong, the Mossberg could use better QC no doubt, but with the spring issue aside its a durable, simple, reliable and cost effective weapon.

Ill add this; Im no engineer, but I cant imagine what Mossberg was thinking by tapering the ends of their mag tube springs. Given my experience(s) with this spring and the fact that the tapered ends seem to promote a "wobble" effect within the tube, it seems highly likely that malfunctions are certainly more plausible vs the "straight" style springs used in other shotguns. Its just one of those things, I guess.

 

[brisendines]

inSight- Ever shot a ruger blackhawk, even a $300 J frame? Needs nothing out of the box. Perform exactly as designed from the first shot, and they will outlast any of us.

 

[inSight-NEO]

inSight- Ever shot a ruger blackhawk, even a $300 J frame? Needs nothing out of the box. Perform exactly as designed from the first shot, and they will outlast any of us.

Nope. But, you listed a few weapons out of what, hundreds....

I wasnt implying that ALL weapons are substandard. I was simply saying that QC is not as tight as it once was. Im sure many would agree with this as Ive heard complaints about Remington, Browning, Mossberg, Benelli, H & K, Sig Sauer, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory, CZ, Taurus, Colt, Kimber, (and yes, Ruger), etc., etc.

Sure, you can always find a great Honda, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Nissan, Toyota, whatever. But, for every "great" review, there always seems to be several complaints following the kudos.

Any mass produced item is going to be prone to issues...period. Does this mean that all of it is junk? Nope. But, its naive to think that "special" attention is going to be given to such merchandise. There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but these are somewhat few and far between and/or possibly command a high price. Im sure that I am being quite the skeptic here but these days, to me at least, its a sellers/manufacturers market, not a buyers market.

 

[brisendines]

Very true. I have my own perfect world in my head. Someday I hope to get there. At least get closer. We seem to be going in the wrong direction, however.

My problem with the Mossberg is that it isn't a spotty QC problem, it is a huge design flaw that any freshman engineering student can spot instantly. I would be interested to know why the older ones opererated flawlessly, yet the brand new ones seem to have problems. The Wolff springs seem to have cured the problem, but I'd still rather have the 40" generic 12 guage spring Gun Connection talks about.

 

[mgregg85]

Yeah the mag spring and the follower in my 590 suck. If you just rack the shells through it without firing it has a bad tendency to jam. Though it seems the sudden shock of recoil will jar the mag tube enough to unjam itself when firing so that it rarely jams when i'm shooting it.

 

[inSight-NEO]

My problem with the Mossberg is that it isn't a spotty QC problem, it is a huge design flaw that any freshman engineering student can spot instantly.

I agree. However, the spring issue aside, several have noted the smart design of the "elevator" used on the Mossberg, due to the fact that it only drops when the forend is fully actuated rearward. Most other shotguns are designed to have the "elevator" drop when the forend is in forward battery. Many consider this to be a detriment. Also, many give Mossberg kudos for their receiver mounted safety vs the usual trigger guard mount. So, even though Mossberg has a few misses, they also have scored a few hits.

Yeah the mag spring and the follower in my 590 suck.

This is why my 590 now sports a Wolff (generic style) spring and a Vang Comp follower. In addition, I will be adding a metal safety and heavy walled barrel soon enough. Also, I have found the need to do a bit of smoothing to the bottom lip of the elevator, in order to eliminate an issue I was having while feeding ammo into the mag tube. So, after all is said and done, I will practically have an A1 (and hopefully, a reliable one at that).