6.5 Creedmoor load development - 136 grain Scenars + H4350 + N155

[Joe Texas]

6.5 Creedmoor
Savage Action
26” Shilen Select Match 1:8

Lapua 136 grain Scenar-L
Hornady brass trimmed to 1.906
Federal 215 Large Rifle Magnum primers (all I have)
.020 off

N555 42.5 - 44.1 in .2 increments (VV max is 44.1)
H4350 41.5 - 43.1 in .2 increments (extrapolated from several sources 43.3 is Sierra max for 140 and 142 SMK)

Bullets supposed to arrive tomorrow. Lord willing, 100 yard tests will be shot and reported on Friday. Pic shows my planning in preparation for their arrival.

 

[Joe Texas]

First 100 yard test w/136 grain Scenar-L -
41.5 - 43.1 H4350
Hornady brass 1.906”
Federal 215 LR magnum primers
COAL 2.822 (.020 off)

3-shot groups @ 100 yards
Front and rear bag.

Chronograph wouldn’t read for 7 of the 9 groups.

41.5 - .5625”
41.7 - .28125”

41.9 - .6875”
Velocity - 2874
ES - 15
SD -7

42.1 - 1.125”
V - 2864
ES - 27
SD - 11

42.3 - .4375”
42.5 - 1.3125”
42.7 - 1”
42.9 - .6875”
43.1 - .75”

Primers in pic lowest-highest charge from left to right.

*42.5 and 42.7 shot at wrong dot. Corrected charge indicated on target.

Going home to clean barrel, seat the N555 test to .020 off and load 5 more rounds with 41.7 H4350. Will hopefully be able to return and shoot the rest today. If not today, in the morning.

 

[JFrank]

I could see qualifying 41.4. -42.4 as an area of further development due to the center of the groups poi at 7:00
How were the conditions?
Any bolt lift pressure?

 

[Joe Texas]

I could see qualifying 41.4. -42.4 as an area of further development due to the center of the groups poi at 7:00
How were the conditions?
Any bolt lift pressure?

Jim, my lowest charge was 41.5 so I assume you made a type-o?

Why not 41.6 - 41.8? That 41.7 group looks promising.

I wish my chrono would have worked today. Maybe it was the lighting.

Anyway, no - there were no pressure signs. The wind was calm.

 

[JFrank]

No type o just didn't want to over look an area 41 4-It would be easy enough to eliminate that charge after the review if indeed stayed low and out side the quadrant 42.5 definitely breaks out.
Which direction was that calm wind coming from?


Look Im just qualifying what I see. (Yes 41.7 does look good so does 42.3) to expand ill say the whole series looks pretty good so obviously this combo suits your rifle, you could load 41.6 and if repeatable call it a day BUT in general terms the window would be small whereas the area I pointed( less 41.4) to is overall much larger I also think the wind got you at least once.

 

[Joe Texas]

136 Scenar/VV N555 test results:
42.5 grains
Average Velocity - 2786
Extreme Spread - 13
Standard Deviation - 5
Group Size (3) - .5625”

42.7, 2800, 25, 11, .6875”
42.9, 2821, 32, 13, 1.1875”
43.1, 2846, 21, 9, 1.375”
43.3, 2866, 7, 3, .625”
43.5, 2865, 9, 4, .625”
43.7, 2872, 12, 5, .875”
43.9, 2886, 16, 7, 1.125”
44.1, 2896, 5, 2, .5”
I’m thinking 43.4 in the middle of the velocity flat spot might be a good place to explore.

41.7 H4350 5 shot group for confirmation of previous day’s test results:
Average velocity - 2827
Extreme spread - 9
Standard deviation - 3
Group Size (5) - 1.1875”
Obviously the group is disappointing but the ES and SD are stellar. I’m going to use that charge for a seating depth tuning ladder.

 

[Joe Texas]

Bonus: 142 SMK/VV N160
Hornady brass 1.906”
Fed 215 LR magnum primer
2.862 (.020 off)

40.4 grains
Average Velocity - 2569
Extreme Spread - 28
Standard Deviation - 12
Group Size - .9375”

40.6, 2584, 30, 13, .875”
40.8, 2588, 13, 6, .6875”
41.0, 2617, 8, 3, .4375”
41.2, 2624, 16, 7, .875”
41.4, 2644, 18, 7, .875”

The 41.0 grain group looks okay.

 

[Joe Texas]

136 Scenar/41.7 H4350 seating depth test + 142 SMK/41.0 VV N160 5 round test:

This was disappointing. Back to the drawing board on powder charge, try kissing the lands, or even more jump - idk. My previous 5 round test group of 41.7 @.020 off had an SD of 3 but wasn’t any smaller than 3/5 of these. This sucks. Oh well. I’ll keep at it.

* Is it possible that the Federal 215 primers could be so inappropriate for this application that this is the result?

Next steps:
Further testing with:
42.3 grains H4350
43.4 grains N555
44.1 grains N555

 

[JFrank]

With any component change a node can and will move slightly or a whole bunch.
You really wouldn't know until you've done enough testing to find out. ( actually you have done a ton of testing just not on that) We run a new ladder for each new component like primers or neck bushing powder lot numbers, all that stuff.

 

[Joe Texas]

With any component change a node can and will move slightly or a whole bunch.
You really wouldn't know until you've done enough testing to find out. ( actually you have done a ton of testing just not on that) We run a new ladder for each new component like primers or neck bushing powder lot numbers, all that stuff.View attachment 1009373

Actually Jim, every test I’ve done in this thread has been with the same primer, the only primer I have, Fed 215. I haven’t been switching primers. I was just complaining that the tests aren’t going well and I think different primers would help.

Here are my thoughts:
These bullets should group better.
• I chose the wrong H4350 charge. I’m gonna keep trying.
• An inconsistency in my shooting - not likely to this extent.
• An inconsistency in my brass prep. I just reprocessed every unloaded piece of 6.5 CM brass I own to make sure they are uniform. They are tumbling now.
• An inconsistency in my loading. I weigh every charge. Maybe the brass prep will iron out any neck tension issues.
• Inappropriately hot primer. Nothing I can do about that but wait until 210s are available (which I ain’t gonna.)
• Finicky barrel. No clue there.
• Barrel doesn’t like these bullets. I don’t believe that.

All I know to do is keep trying until something meets my standards or the barrel burns up. Then I’ll just replace it and start over. Lord willing, I will have an outstanding load in this caliber before I die.

 

[JFrank]

Did you not bring data from previous loads using a different primer to this thread ?

Hey Joe'
Don't get me wrong cause I'm rooting for ya to come up with something you like from these components YOU chose.

 

[Blue68f100]

Did you not bring data from previous loads using a different primer to this thread ?

Hey Joe'
Don't get me wrong cause I'm rooting for ya to come up with something you like from these components you chose.

I think I read he started with a load using the Fed 215M primers. Ran out then started using the stf Fed 215's. Which would be more consistent in ignition.

 

[JFrank]

J

 

[Joe Texas]

Did you not bring data from previous loads using a different primer to this thread ?

Hey Joe'
Don't get me wrong cause I'm rooting for ya to come up with something you like from these components you chose.

No, not on this one. New projectile, bullet, primers.

 

[Joe Texas]

I think I read he started with a load using the Fed 215M primers. Ran out then started using the stf Fed 215's. Which would be more consistent in ignition.

Nope, regular blue package 215s. I wish they were match. I’ve always used 210M for everything that uses large rifle primers. I worked up initial loads for this gun with different bullets and 210Ms. They were better.

 

[JFrank]

Well after what ..three threads, multiple bullets, several different powders, a couple different primers and hundreds of rounds downrange of different component combinations.

What's the "go to" repeatable load ?

 

[Joe Texas]

Well after what ..three threads, multiple bullets, several different powders, a couple different primers and hundreds of rounds downrange of different component combinations.

What's the "go to" repeatable load ?

130 ELD-M over 43.4 N160, 43.2 N555, or 42.0 H4350 (in that order) with Federal 210M primer are the best so far from this barrel.

Jim, your comment and tone sounds frustrated.

Believe me, I wish my results were better.It’s my gun, money, and time - not yours. It doesn’t cost you a thing to chime in. Maybe we can arrange for you to send me some components so you can have some skin in this game. Then your frustration would make more sense.

1) I started the first thread when my barrel was new.
2) The second one was an attempt to put the data in a thread without so much commentary.
3) This one was for the Lapua bullet.
4) I post this stuff to add to the data base of real world experience with these specific components.
5) I think there is value in posting about the struggles in the process instead of cherry-picking tiny groups and bragging like folks on the internet seem to do.
6) I have loaded for a .223 and .308 in this same platform and developed reliably repeatable 1/2 MOA loads for both. My process or ability hasn’t changed. This caliber/barrel has proven frustrating.
7) If components were more readily available I would have used SMKs, VV powder, and Fed 210 primers exclusively. I suspect I would have already found a load that pleases me but what do I know?

Anyway, thanks for your participation I guess. This isn’t for you. This is for people like me that try to read all they can when loading for a new caliber or with new components. In this case, somebody else who’s struggling can at least know they aren’t alone.

 

[Joe Texas]

Last entry:
Tried some 5 round groups of the charges that looked okay in the 3-round tests:

136 Scenar 43.4 N555
Chrono didn’t read
5 rounds - 1”

136 Scenar 44.1 N555
Vel - 2889
ES - 12
SD - 5
5 rounds - .9375

136 Scenar 42.3 H4350
Vel - 2871
ES - 12
SD - 4
GS - 1”

136 Scenar 43.5 N160
Vel - 2838
ES -16
SD - 5
5 rounds - 1.3125”

Hope my trial and error provides some information to other loaders. I won’t be posting any more on here. I guess this format does invite random strangers’ on the internet to chime in with their comments. It’s still a beat down to try to share my findings only to have to listen to somebody tell me that they would have found a one-hole load with two bullets, a thimble full of powder, and a Czechoslovakian primer. Maybe he would have. What do I know? Peace out High Road!

 

[JFrank]

I'm not frustrated at all in fact I was hoping you came up with a good load , why wouldn't I cheer for you.
Oh well..