6.5 Creedmoor or 30-06?

[H&Hhunter]

Greg is being a little too humble. The 260 has its pros and cons. Just depends on the context. For factory rifles, sure the cm beats it. But with the right chamber and twist the 260 has some advantages

I wasn’t implying that the .260 was a lousy round. I was severely overstating any implied advantage over the 6.5 CM though.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Which brings up a good point. Has anybody done a 6.5 CM/AI yet? Is it possible and would it be worth doing?

 

[taliv]

no, but i'm thinking about something like that. essentially i want to make a 260AI again, but i want small primer pockets. i like necking up more than down, so i don't want to start with lapua palma 308 brass and go down. i don't think i'd gain much with a 6.5cm to AI

to be more specific, i want to push a 140 grainer around 3050, but i want to do it with 44-46g h4350 or r17, not like 55g in a larger cartridge

 

[Legionnaire]

I don't see how one could "Ackley-ize" a 6.5 Creedmoor, as it already has an Ackley-like shoulder. You could push the shoulder forward, but at the expense of shortening the neck, which would then give you the same limitation the .260 AI has with long bullets. Seems to me that if you want more power behind a 6.5 bullet in a short action, you're looking at the 6.5 GAP or PRS.

Peterson makes 260 brass with small primer pockets. Have you tried that?

My current .260 AIs are built on short actions. I might build one on a long action for the magazine length ... or send a SA off to be cut for a Wyatt box.

 

[taliv]

Was not aware of Peterson brass. Thanks for tip

 

[LoonWulf]

Which brings up a good point. Has anybody done a 6.5 CM/AI yet? Is it possible and would it be worth doing?

As Legionnaire said
The 6.5CM is pretty close to an AI case already, tho the shoulder angle is less steep, it's not alot less steep.

250AI and 6.5CM side by side.

 

[Varminterror]

I don't see how one could "Ackley-ize" a 6.5 Creedmoor, as it already has an Ackley-like shoulder. You could push the shoulder forward, but at the expense of shortening the neck, which would then give you the same limitation the .260 AI has with long bullets.

Two corrections to this:

Ackley rounds do not shorten the neck. They blow the tail end of the shoulder forward. It can run the same bullets at the same COAL as current.

The 6.5 creed doesn’t have an Ackley shoulder. Ackley Improved rounds run 40degree shoulders, while the 6.5 creed is a 30.

 

[Legionnaire]

Yup. Precision is a good thing. I was speaking in general terms, hence the "Ackley-like."

Taking the 30° shoulder to 40° by blowing the rear of the shoulder forward wouldn't gain you much capacity if you leave the neck the same length. If you moved the whole shoulder forward while keeping the same angle, you would increase capacity at the expense of shortening the neck. I was suggesting that one could take a 6.5 Creedmoor case and blow the shoulder forward to 40° and move the whole shoulder forward. Probably doable, but all you'd end up with is a .260 Ackley!

 

[taliv]

Don’t forget the ackley makes the walls less tapered too.

 

[Llama Bob]

Which brings up a good point. Has anybody done a 6.5 CM/AI yet? Is it possible and would it be worth doing?

There'd be very little difference - it's essentially an improved cartridge except for the 30 degree shoulder.

 

[Varminterror]

Don’t forget the ackley makes the walls less tapered too.

Generally it does, but the 6.5 creed doesn’t have much taper to give up. It’s about 1/3 less taper than the 260, and still slightly less body taper than the 260 AI.

I suppose we can blow it out to straight wall, but even at that, we’re not talking about anywhere near as much capacity gain as blowing out 260 to 260AI. Chambering ain’t great without at least a LITTLE taper, which the 6.5 has about as little as you can get.

The 6.5’s 30 degree shoulder is half way between the 260’s 20 degree and the AI’s 40. Not really Ackley-ized, but not really last century either. But without the body taper change to add capacity, we’re not talking about as much opportunity from just the shoulder as the normal Ackley “improvement”.

If you blow the shoulder forward, you’re losing neck, and won’t fit in the mag, all to gain 50 extra yards before falling transonic... After all of that, what are we trying to accomplish? If it’s a drag race, ok... but what matches has the 260 or 260 AI been winning ahead of 6.5 Creedmoor’s lately?

 

[SunnySlopes]

Myself I’ve owned and hunted with a T3 for 15 years and I have no idea why someone would complain about the bolt shroud or desire to replace it, but they do make aftermarket aluminum ones. It’s a waste of money though as the original one is just not a problem.

The plastic shroud was a point of contention for purists long before I was even aware of the model. Then, Tikka replaced the plastic with "metallic." Their web description:

METALLIC BOLT SHROUD Robustness and quality go hand in hand. Metallic bolt shroud covers and shields the rear of the bolt body and the firing pin.

That's for the T3X.

 

[Paul7]

Scandinavians have used the 6.5 X. 55 Swede for elk (our Moose) for decades, but are required to prove they can shoot it before a license is issued.

Those moose are smaller than ours, and shots are mostly taken in thick woods, 100 yards or less.

 

[Newtosavage]

Mostly target shooting. Some medium game hunting.

Entirely subjective, I know, but what's your preference?

The Creedmoor would be in a Tikka TX3 Lite. The ought 6 would be in a Remington 700.

No question - the 6.5 CM in the Tikka. It will become one of, if not THE, most enjoyable rifles you've owned.

 

[Newtosavage]

The good thing about 30 06 is any hardware store that sells ammo will have it on hand. I would probably have to travel farther and look a little harder to get 6.5.

One would think (I did) but my last trip to a Wal-Mart proved me wrong. There were as many different boxes of 6.5 CM as there were '06. I was floored by how cheap it was too. So the CM is here to stay IMO.

 

[IWAC]

Those moose are smaller than ours, and shots are mostly taken in thick woods, 100 yards or less.

How much smaller? European Alg, (Elk, Moose) come in various sizes...from ~450-800 lbs. for lady mooses to 850-1800 pounds for the fellows. My American Elk was "smaller"... about 500 lbs, iirc. Point is, the European Meeses may or may not be as large as a particular individual American one, but they can be plenty large. With the 8mm and 9mm rifle cartridges Scandinavians have to choose from, the "little" 6.5 apparently does well, and is highly regarded. Distances? Having no direct experience with Scandinavia, but having lived in Switzerland for 2 1/2 years, I'd say yardages can be as varied as they are in the eastern/central U.S.of A.

As I see it, the manufacturers have to come up with something new on a regular basis to stimulate sales. Years ago, the "short" magnums were supposed to be the cure all, but, now they seem to be languishing. My favorite, the 257 Roberts has gone the way of the Dodo bird, but The old "standards"...30-06, .270, .308, 6.5 X 55 Swedish, 243, 223...all seem to be doing whatever they are asked without much fanfare and hoopla, which they have done for years, and will likely continue doing so for the foreseeable future!

 

[Jessesky]

For the reasons the OP posted of mostly target shooting with some medium game hunting, the 6.5 creedmoor fits the bill. For larger game, and more general use, the 30-06 gets my vote.