6.8 or 6.5 Ar upper?

[d2wing]

My AR has proven itself taking down big bucks at close range, but I thinking
about upgrading for 200 to 300 yard shots without buying another rifle. So what upper should I get? 6.5 or 6.8. I'm also considering buying a .308 SA rifle but I'm trying to stay light, lower recoil and least expense.

 

[rbernie]

Either will do the job within 300 yards, as will 7.62x39 uppers. I suggest starting your search by looking at ammo and seeing what chamberings have ammo that you're likely to want to use.

 

[okiewita40]

I am going to suggest going with the 6.8 since all the ammo out there for it are hunting rounds. Not sure what all you are wanting on the upper. I would go with AR15 performance or bison or the upper. Just make sure that the upper you get has 1 in 11 to 1 in 12 twist and a spcII chamber. All the arp and bison's are built with those. Plus either will custom build you an upper if you need to go that route. Check out the 68 forum for tons of info on the 6.8.

 

[benzy2]

I like the 6.5 better myself. Better choice of bullets out there especially for the longer range stuff. I will say though that I am fairly biased towards the 6.5mm and 7mm bullets on the market today. Just a great selection from light weight to good hunting bullets to good long range match bullets and anything in between. For 200-300 yard shots though, I'm not sure the 6.5 is a better performer than the 6.8. In that range, I would pick whichever sounds better to you.

 

[longdayjake]

I actually own both. Of the two, I really prefer the 6.5. It doubles as a hunting round and long range round. The 6.8 is a good enough hunting round though. I just like the 6.5 more. My suggestion would be to get the 6.5 if you enjoy handloading because there are some awesome options in 6.5.However, it seems like there is more 6.5 factory loads out there these days as compared to a year or two ago. Here is a picture of the 6.5 100 grain TTSX that I put into an elk this fall. It had a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and made contact at about 100 yards. It went through about 3 foot of elk and then stopped just under the hide.

 

[Ratdog68]

Don't let those 6.5 Grumble boyz

try to tell ya that the 6.8 doesn't measure up. Here's some links of real world "gettin' it done" by the 6.8. The 6.8 Rocks da house.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6779112#post6779112

 

[BrandonFromTampa]

When you say 6.5, do you mean 6.5x55 swede? If so, that's what I would do. I have a bolt in 6.5 swede and I love it. It kicks soft, has a long arm, kills deer, and it isn't even really that loud. I had no idea I could get a battle rifle in 6.5 swede. I hope that's the cartridge your talking about. But the ammo will eat you alive.

 

[68wj]

When you say 6.5, do you mean 6.5x55 swede? If so, that's what I would do. I have a bolt in 6.5 swede and I love it. It kicks soft, has a long arm, kills deer, and it isn't even really that loud. I had no idea I could get a battle rifle in 6.5 swede. I hope that's the cartridge your talking about. But the ammo will eat you alive.

Since it is for the AR, im gonna assume 6.5 Grendal or .264 LBC.

At OP's stated range and purpose (hunting, not paper punching), either 6.8 or 6.5 will be fine. The 6.8 will have a little more energy there (higher MV) but the 6.5 isnt too far behind and will start to surpass at longer distance (higher BC).

The question comes down to realistic expectations of need and ammo availability. If you reload, both have GREAT bullet choices for hunting. If you don't, find what is most available in your area or what you want to have delivered. Both calibers are very accurate.

Here is a link to Wilson Combat's page on the 6.8 with some nice kill shots at the bottom. http://www.wilsoncombat.com/68project.htm

 

[longdayjake]

Ratdog,

What is it that you have against the 6.5? The more I shoot both the 6.8 and the 6.5 I really find that there is hardly a difference between the two so really if you like one you should like both. My personal preference is for the 6.5 because I like to hunt and shoot long range. The 6.5 can do both really well. The 6.8 is the better close combat round in my opinion, but I am not in combat so it really doesn't matter that much to me that I can get slightly more energy up to 100 yards with my 6.8.

 

[Walkalong]

I had no idea I could get a battle rifle in 6.5 swede.

The Swedish Ljungman is a 6.5X55. I was lucky enough to try one at a public range once. They are really cool. There are some knockoffs in another caliber. 8 MM mauser, I think.

 

[Ratdog68]

I have nothing against the 6.5... never have. The two calibers are a LOT more similar than most 6.5 fans are willing to admit. I offered up links to real world use of the 6.8 to affirm the 6.8's capabilities. It's good to hear that your use of the two has confirmed that to you. Your admission/realization is a rarity amongst the 6.5 fans. A 372yd elk kill and consistent steel hits at 800yds head off the usual posturing that 6.8 fans have to wade through by the unknowing parrots on the 'net.

If you look at my post again... I included a "wink"... (you know... tongue in cheek).

 

[lencac]

Hi Guys:
All things being equal I would have to go with the 6.5. Great selection of projectiles, great BC. It's a proven performer particularly in Europe on Caribu. But, the kicker is, especially for hunting the 6.5 has higher sectional density which is it's real indicator of penetration power. Just my thought

 

[mokin]

I went through the same dilema several months ago. I have a soft spot in my heart for 6.5mm cartridges and after seeing one in action I was really sold on it. But after looking at the selection of parts I went with the 6.8. It seemed to me that the rifle I wanted to build would only be available in 6.8. I did a lot of research and concluded that the pros and cons of each cartridge came out even. Secretely, deep down inside, I think the 6.5 would be a more fun cartridge. Maybe my next build....

 

[NWdude83]

See my signature...

 

[68wj]

How far do you plan to shoot? Using the (debatable) 1000 ft/lb rule:

6.5 Grendel using Bill Alexander's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs with either caliber. The same temp, pressure, line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers.
100 Nosler-2600fps--drop 9.4/801 ft lbs
107 SMK-2545fps-----drop9.5/878ft lbs
123 SMK-2472fps----drop 9.4/1083ft lbs
120TSX-2472fps----drop9.8/984ft lbs

6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel
100 Nosler-2700fps--drop9.0/809ft lbs
110 Nosler-2630fps--drop9.0/939ft lbs
110TSX-2630fps---drop 9.5/856ft lbs ------added

6.8 handloads max
100 Nosler 2950fps---drop 7.4/993ftlbs
110 Nosler 2750fps--drop8.2/1040ftlbs

reference: http://ar15performance.com/6_8_spec__comparison

 

[TIMC]

Don't let those 6.8 Grumble boyz

Steer you away from the 6.5!

Reall I guess it all boils down to your preference, I'm not going to bad mouth the 6.8 because I don't have any experience with it but I do with the 6.5 Grendel.
I went with the 6.5 and love it. I do hand load for mine and I'm also running a little heavier than most using 129 grain SST's for my hunting. So far I have taken a few hogs and a coyote with mine and am impressed with it's performance.

 

[longdayjake]

remember that when you are looking at 6.8 data don't be fooled by the "Max velocities" that are posted. Most of the stuff that people throw around on the web to "show off" the 6.8 comes from 1:12 twist 3 groove barrels with a special chambering. Most people that own a 6.8 have typical rifling and a 1:10 barrel. The newer barrels that are capable of getting higher velocities without too much pressure are a lot less common that you would think. However, most of the "in the know" manufacturers are making their barrels in the newer chambering, twist, and groove. (Ar performance being probably the most used)

Another thing to note about the grendel vs the 6.8 is that the 6.8 is a 60k psi rifle and the grendel is just a 50k. New chamberings are starting to come forth for the grendel and I imagine it won't be long before someone comes up with a chambering and twist that shoots 85-110 grain bullets pretty dang close to the velocities of the 6.8. The downside to the grendel is that the faster barrel twist that is required to stabalize the longer heavier bullets also increases pressures. If someone wanted to make a grendel for lighter bullets only they could probably make one that would shoot a couple hundred fps faster.

Also, AR15 performance is missing a manufacturer of 6.5 grendel ammo.

 

[Tirod]

The 6.8 has far more ammo, uppers, barrels, and product availability. If you need to buy ammo, it's out on the internet. 6.5G ammo had become a such a sticking point that Les Baer ordered his own cases to remedy the problem.

In terms of ballistics, both will do. At 200-300 yards, the typical 6.8 load will be in it's optimum range. The 6.5G offers a more efficient bullet that delivers better performance further. Whether anyone actually shoots game past 400m is the real issue. Most never do, unless it's prairie dog or antelope. If that is also on the table, get the 6.5G and always keep a box ahead of your shooting.

The majority of the AR shooters using something besides 5.56 use 6.8 SPC. Argue ballistics all day, the sales figures are there, and so are the suppliers. Most hunters prefer more power at shorter ranges.

For the AR enthusiast, the 6.8 offers less modification to work right. The AR was designed for a slight taper small case, and the 6.8 does push that. It requires a barrel, bolt, and magazines. All of those are open market items. The 6.5G also needs a barrel, bolt, and magazine, and therein lies the rub. The case diameter becomes so large the makers offer superbolts, even they think standard AR bolts are weakened too much. The magazine makers have the biggest challenge, making a curved magazine jog into a straight mag well. Keep the mag under 20 rounds, and it is much less a problem, and possibly a hunting requirement. The point is using tapered Russian cases in the AR means accepting compromises. The benefits have compensating problems.

The 6.8 SPC was designed in the AR action to make it all work within it's limits, the 6.5G was designed to get the best possible performance at long range, with some compromises that were acceptable for precision shooting. They aren't major sticking points, but need to be out where you can see them and fully assess. Which you choose isn't a test of moral fiber, just get what looks like will work best for your conditions.

 

[longdayjake]

Tirod,

Why do you continue to think that the 6.5 grendel requires a different kind of mag than the 6.8? Do you not know that a 6.8 mag will work for the 6.5 as long as you have the 6.5 follower? You know that the 6.8 requires its own mags as well right? The only difference between the 6.5 mag and a 5.56 mag is the feed lips. That is all. The 6.5 grendel is not tapered like the russian 7.62x39 case is. I have tried to explain this to you before but for some reason you continue to tell others that there is something crazy special about the mags. The 6.5 gendel was designed for the AR just as much as the 6.8 was.

Also, ammo availability is fine for the grendel. If you want to pay for factory loads you can get them easily and quickly online.

 

[d2wing]

Thanks for all the info, so the .264 LBC, grendel and 6.5 sporter are the same? What about the 6mm PPC? I'm scratching bald spot trying to figure this out. For sure the 6.8 is more popular and easier to come by parts and ammo. are they all based on the 7.62x39 meaning the bolt face is opened on all of them? This is harder to call than I thought. I saw somewhere a 6mm on a necked up .223 case, which also sounds good as would a .257 necked up, but these are too rare for my hunting use. Since I like to be able to buy ammo
in a pinch. The 6.8 or maybe 6.5 sporter as a dark horse.

 

[constructor]

I have had 2 personal 6.5CSS rifles with the compound throat like the Grendel and 2 personal chambers with the standard 1.5 degree throat. If you decide to go with a 6.5 do yourself a favor and check out the 264LBC or any that have a 1.5 degree throat and apx .110-.120 freebore, they are not as finicky as the compound throat angle, much easier to load for and get accuracy out of. The Black Hills 123gr SMK ammo is unbelievably accurate for factory ammo.

 

[Tirod]

The 6.5G started from the PPC cases, which originated with the Russian case. The 6.8 uses the older .30 Remington, which which was essentially the .30-30 without the rim.

Searching online will bring up drawings with sizes specified to sort out the parent cartridges.The more important part is what you get - with either - is a significant plus in power. The larger bullets carry more energy further downrange and make the AR a true deer rifle.

As far as caliber names, the copycats reinvent new ones to poach off the originators. Like it nor not, there is little to be done for it, and the subject of "name that caliber" comes up all the time. Whether from licensing infringements, country of origin, or the simple distinction between civilian or military, a round that can shoot through any of those barrels may have a number of different names. It's part of the lore of calibers.

It won't hurt at all to sort out any questions, for the 6.8, ask the experts at 6.8forums.

 

[constructor]

Tirod,

Why do you continue to think that the 6.5 grendel requires a different kind of mag than the 6.8? Do you not know that a 6.8 mag will work for the 6.5 as long as you have the 6.5 follower? You know that the 6.8 requires its own mags as well right? The only difference between the 6.5 mag and a 5.56 mag is the feed lips. That is all. The 6.5 grendel is not tapered like the russian 7.62x39 case is. I have tried to explain this to you before but for some reason you continue to tell others that there is something crazy special about the mags. The 6.5 gendel was designed for the AR just as much as the 6.8 was.

Also, ammo availability is fine for the grendel. If you want to pay for factory loads you can get them easily and quickly online.

The 6.5 mags are wider than the 5.56 inside, the ribs are not as deep on the side.
6.8s are also wider than a 5.56 inside.