Gtscotty
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What 6.8 load gives those numbers? I topped out around 2,660 fps out of my 18" with the 110gr ABs, and that was a fairly stout load of AA2200.
6.8 spc or .300 ham'r?
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What 6.8 load gives those numbers? I topped out around 2,660 fps out of my 18" with the 110gr ABs, and that was a fairly stout load of AA2200.
Maybe I'm stupid (no doubt), but if you already have a Grendel which is in my opinion superior to either of the calibers you are considering, why not acquire something a little more different? You say you want something for hunting deer size game. A bolt 6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 would be a big step up from any of these AR calibers from a performance standpoint. I don't know how you hunt but the faster follow up shots and higher capacity you get in an AR rarely matter in hunting situations.
Steve in Allentown
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BreechFace
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H335 will get one there. I’m also at some elevation which helps but it’s not hard to get 110’s to shoot in the 2,700’s but approaching 2,800’s takes some loading prowess.
But it takes experience as a reloader with good brass (old SSA or S&B) they have good case capacity and load them long.
Brass life with be shorter as primer pockets will loosen after a few loadings.
Getting the right barrel throating and twist makes a difference in keeping pressures low as one works up a load.
But it takes experience as a reloader with good brass (old SSA or S&B) they have good case capacity and load them long.
Brass life with be shorter as primer pockets will loosen after a few loadings.
Getting the right barrel throating and twist makes a difference in keeping pressures low as one works up a load.
someguy2800
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I would have to agree, if you want something that is a substantial step up from the grendel you either need to get one of the MDWS wildcats, which is a substantial investment and a handload only affair, or step up to a different platform.
I shot 3 deer one year with my 7.62x39 and found it to be adequate, but it left me wanting a bit more. I built an AR10 in 6.5C which I never liked and then sold that to build a 358 yeti. The Yeti has been phenomenal for me. A real game changer for the platform in my opinion.
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MISportsman
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I mainly hunt with bolt guns, this build is mainly just got fun and to use up parts I have laying around from a couple of previous builds. I figured I might as well build something I can hunt with, just for fun.
mcb
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Strangely Sig has picked up on the 300 Ham'r cartridge and are making ammo but don't appear to be making rifles yet. If your already loading 300 BO its a pretty simple to switch to 300 Ham'r. Most of the components play well in both.
Personally I like my 300 BO's and would rather have the sub-sonic performance of 300 BO over the 300 Ham'r's increased super sonic performance but that has more to do with how I am using my 300 BO. I guess I just don't use my AR's in ways that 300 Ham'r or 6.8 SPC gives me an advantage I can take advantage of. For competition and blasting 556 is cheaper, easy and flat shooting. For hunting I like my 450 Bushmaster and 30 RAR. For utility/varmints suppressed 300 BO subsonic is compact and easy on the ears.
Personally I like my 300 BO's and would rather have the sub-sonic performance of 300 BO over the 300 Ham'r's increased super sonic performance but that has more to do with how I am using my 300 BO. I guess I just don't use my AR's in ways that 300 Ham'r or 6.8 SPC gives me an advantage I can take advantage of. For competition and blasting 556 is cheaper, easy and flat shooting. For hunting I like my 450 Bushmaster and 30 RAR. For utility/varmints suppressed 300 BO subsonic is compact and easy on the ears.
Gtscotty
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What about 6mm ARC? Common bolt head with the Grendel and will use up those pesky extra parts just fine. I have a heavy 21" that's been fun, 85gr @ ~3,000 fps, 95gr @ ~2,800+ fps and 105gr/108gr @ 2,700 fps should work fine on deer. I plan on building another upper based on a lighter 18" barrel like the Ranier Ultra-match, as a lighter range/hunting crossover rifle.
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MISportsman
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I don't know what it is about the arc, but I just can't bring myself to like it
Phaedrus/69
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The ARC fascinates me as well but according to rumors/reports it's hard to get it to feed properly from mags larger than 10 rounds.
In reply to some of the comments, the web is full of good info on 7.62x39 and it's capability... far hotter with much more potential than domestic factory loads adhering to SAAMI. And I wouldn't worry about the so-called Russian ammo ban. It hasn't gone into effect and likely never will. If it does it'll be short lived. All ammo in most calibers is more expensive these days and harder to find at reasonable prices, when you can find it at all.
Ruger established SAAMI pressure standards for 7.62x39 with assistance from Lapua, Finland, and they completely botched it through miscommunication. It should have been corrected long ago, but apparently there's no real incentive. Instead people keep trying to recreate 7.62x39 and call it something else. 300 Blackout and 300 Ham'r are the most recent x39 inspired that come to mind.
x39 factory ammo made to European C.I.P. standards is generally hotter by as much as 200 to 300 fps than many US domestic factory loads with the same weight projectiles. And with handloads the sky is the limit.
My 32-year love affair with x39 has given me plenty of insight, experientially and through research. I don't want to hijack this thread with the pages of info I could share, so at some point I'll start a new thread on x39.
Back to 300 Ham'r... it's been called a rimless 30-30 by Wilson, and that's pretty accurate, but that can be said of x39 as well. Both 300 Ham'r and x39 have the advantage of using spire point bullets with much higher BC in semi-autos. x39 has an added advantage of loading subsonic, same as 300 BLK.
Wilson's description of 300 Ham'r is eerily similar to early Ruger ads for the Mini-30 from the late 1980s... almost verbatim. The difference is Ruger was drastically underestimating x39 when comparing it to 30-30 in those early ads pitching the Mini-30 as a deer rifle. That's another story for another thread.
One more thing about 7.62x39. It's not limited by physics, but by philosophy. A shift in philosophy after WWII of new warfare for small arms, which was basically the least amount of powder and projectile to get the job done. Some people are still stuck in the past when it comes to the potential of x39. Others have discovered how much more it can do with modern powders than it was originally intended to do.
I'll stop there for now. No one has ever accused me of being concise.
~ Beck
Ruger established SAAMI pressure standards for 7.62x39 with assistance from Lapua, Finland, and they completely botched it through miscommunication. It should have been corrected long ago, but apparently there's no real incentive. Instead people keep trying to recreate 7.62x39 and call it something else. 300 Blackout and 300 Ham'r are the most recent x39 inspired that come to mind.
x39 factory ammo made to European C.I.P. standards is generally hotter by as much as 200 to 300 fps than many US domestic factory loads with the same weight projectiles. And with handloads the sky is the limit.
My 32-year love affair with x39 has given me plenty of insight, experientially and through research. I don't want to hijack this thread with the pages of info I could share, so at some point I'll start a new thread on x39.
Back to 300 Ham'r... it's been called a rimless 30-30 by Wilson, and that's pretty accurate, but that can be said of x39 as well. Both 300 Ham'r and x39 have the advantage of using spire point bullets with much higher BC in semi-autos. x39 has an added advantage of loading subsonic, same as 300 BLK.
Wilson's description of 300 Ham'r is eerily similar to early Ruger ads for the Mini-30 from the late 1980s... almost verbatim. The difference is Ruger was drastically underestimating x39 when comparing it to 30-30 in those early ads pitching the Mini-30 as a deer rifle. That's another story for another thread.
One more thing about 7.62x39. It's not limited by physics, but by philosophy. A shift in philosophy after WWII of new warfare for small arms, which was basically the least amount of powder and projectile to get the job done. Some people are still stuck in the past when it comes to the potential of x39. Others have discovered how much more it can do with modern powders than it was originally intended to do.
I'll stop there for now. No one has ever accused me of being concise.
~ Beck
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BreechFace
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greyling22
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This is based off what I have heard from the grendel guys: but the x39 bolt in an ar has thin walls. I'd be kind of leery trying to hot rod that round in that gun. You might start shearing lugs off.
Or not.
Or not.
Phaedrus/69
Member
Yeah, there's not a lot of meat around the rim of the case in an x39 AR bolt. I'd rather not go there but some people don't mind. Still, this is about the HAM'R, not the x39.
greyling22
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As far as I can tell, this is the major discussion of the 300 ham'r. https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7506626/wilson-combat-300-hamr#Post7506626
Bill Wilson himself posts a ton, and has even replied to PM's.
And lastly, I know the official topic is the 6.8 vs the 300 ham'r, but another one to consider is the 277 wolverine, which was designed to be 6.8 ballistics in a 223 case. Even less established than the ham'r though, but I've got to give props to mad dog weapons systems for the work they have done with wildcats. I find all their cartridges very interesting, but not compelling.
Bill Wilson himself posts a ton, and has even replied to PM's.
And lastly, I know the official topic is the 6.8 vs the 300 ham'r, but another one to consider is the 277 wolverine, which was designed to be 6.8 ballistics in a 223 case. Even less established than the ham'r though, but I've got to give props to mad dog weapons systems for the work they have done with wildcats. I find all their cartridges very interesting, but not compelling.
OP
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MISportsman
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I was very seriously considering 7.62x39. I love my sks and it is a great cartridge. It sounds like even better than I thought! I decided to go a different rout though because all of the horror stories about 7.62x39 arsIn reply to some of the comments, the web is full of good info on 7.62x39 and it's capability... far hotter with much more potential than domestic factory loads adhering to SAAMI. And I wouldn't worry about the so-called Russian ammo ban. It hasn't gone into effect and likely never will. If it does it'll be short lived. All ammo in most calibers is more expensive these days and harder to find at reasonable prices, when you can find it at all.
Ruger established SAAMI pressure standards for 7.62x39 with assistance from Lapua, Finland, and they completely botched it through miscommunication. It should have been corrected long ago, but apparently there's no real incentive. Instead people keep trying to recreate 7.62x39 and call it something else. 300 Blackout and 300 Ham'r are the most recent x39 inspired that come to mind.
x39 factory ammo made to European C.I.P. standards is generally hotter by as much as 200 to 300 fps than many US domestic factory loads with the same weight projectiles. And with handloads the sky is the limit.
My 32-year love affair with x39 has given me plenty of insight, experientially and through research. I don't want to hijack this thread with the pages of info I could share, so at some point I'll start a new thread on x39.
Back to 300 Ham'r... it's been called a rimless 30-30 by Wilson, and that's pretty accurate, but that can be said of x39 as well. Both 300 Ham'r and x39 have the advantage of using spire point bullets with much higher BC in semi-autos. x39 has an added advantage of loading subsonic, same as 300 BLK.
Wilson's description of 300 Ham'r is eerily similar to early Ruger ads for the Mini-30 from the late 1980s... almost verbatim. The difference is Ruger was drastically underestimating x39 when comparing it to 30-30 in those early ads pitching the Mini-30 as a deer rifle. That's another story for another thread.
One more thing about 7.62x39. It's not limited by physics, but by philosophy. A shift in philosophy after WWII of new warfare for small arms, which was basically the least amount of powder and projectile to get the job done. Some people are still stuck in the past when it comes to the potential of x39. Others have discovered how much more it can do with modern powders than it was originally intended to do.
I'll stop there for now. No one has ever accused me of being concise.
~ Beck
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BreechFace
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Don’t let the horror stories dissuade you. Much is overblown by the internet on that front. Buy C-products magazines stay away from 30 rounders. But a reputable bolt and barrel, stick with carbine gas and fire away.
Look at all the grendels out there in which their bolt is hogged out with thin edges as well.
If I had a dollar for every horror story that gets repeated about AR47’s I would have enough money to build and enjoy a few more of them.
someguy2800
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Get the right magazines and if you are worried about bolts just buy a spare to put in the parts bin. You very unlikely to need it though. Mine has been the most reliable AR I've ever had. I use 10 round C-products mags.
Gordon
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I have a superb LWRC Six8-A2 in 6.8 SPCII and it is incredibly accurate and I never had one iota of problems. I Use the Magpul 30 round Mag that was developed especially for the system :
https://www.lwrci.com/Magpul-PMAG-30-Round-68-SPC-Magazine_p_158.html
I have tried a standard ar 20 round mag and it feeds 7 rounds OK and that would be more than enough for hunting . I shot a deer last year with it with the 110 grain load and at 232 yards it was devastating ! I like it far better than my .300 Black outs for supersonic uses.
https://www.lwrci.com/Magpul-PMAG-30-Round-68-SPC-Magazine_p_158.html
I have tried a standard ar 20 round mag and it feeds 7 rounds OK and that would be more than enough for hunting . I shot a deer last year with it with the 110 grain load and at 232 yards it was devastating ! I like it far better than my .300 Black outs for supersonic uses.
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BreechFace
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I have a superb LWRC Six8-A2 in 6.8 SPCII and it is incredibly accurate and I never had one iota of problems. I Use the Magpul 30 round Mag that was developed especially for the system :
https://www.lwrci.com/Magpul-PMAG-30-Round-68-SPC-Magazine_p_158.html
I have tried a standard ar 20 round mag and it feeds 7 rounds OK and that would be more than enough for hunting . I shot a deer last year with it with the 110 grain load and at 232 yards it was devastating ! I like it far better than my .300 Black outs for supersonic uses.
Very nice! Those are sweet 6.8 SPC platforms.
I wish someone would develop a metal mag for the Six8 lower that would allow even longer COAL it would really open up possibilities.
Yeah, there's not a lot of meat around the rim of the case in an x39 AR bolt. I'd rather not go there but some people don't mind. Still, this is about the HAM'R, not the x39.
You can always count on the naysayers. You might have a flat tire. You might get food poisoning from a restaurant. Hey you might even be wrong. What a joke to think that way.
mokin
Member
This has been an interesting read. I was very interested in the 6.5 Grendel but ended up building a 6.8 SPC due to costs. I got it finished just as the 300 Blackout was gaining popularity. I started to think I had missed out. A dozen years later, not so much. I don't know much about the 300 Ham'r From looking at the numbers, I don't see how you'll gain much either way.
I think someguy2800 is on to something here. I agree that for a big difference in performance from an AR-15 pattern rifle, try a MDWS wildcat.
I think someguy2800 is on to something here. I agree that for a big difference in performance from an AR-15 pattern rifle, try a MDWS wildcat.
someguy2800
Member
I need another AR about as much as I need another hole in my head, but this thread has gotten me interested in getting a 6.8 barrel from AR15performance. I have never been that interested in it but guys seam to get pretty impressive velocities with their 3R barrels and super bolt. It would be a good combo for my kiddo's to start deer hunting with when they get old enough, but then again so would one of my 7.62x39 uppers. I'll stick with my Yeti for myself.
I own a WC Recon in 6.8 SPC II and I cannot speak to any experience with the 300 HAM’R but I am sure it will do just fine on deer and pigs - neither animal is magic or a tank - they will both bleed and die.
My 6.8 is extremely accurate and has been a deer killing machine - it dispatches deer so well that it has become boring to use it. I do not think that the 6.8 is going to gain or loose interest in the near future - I do think that it will exist for some time to come. It is just another caliber like most other calibers - mine works very well and it is boringly effective. In summary, either caliber should be selected based upon your likes.
My 6.8 is extremely accurate and has been a deer killing machine - it dispatches deer so well that it has become boring to use it. I do not think that the 6.8 is going to gain or loose interest in the near future - I do think that it will exist for some time to come. It is just another caliber like most other calibers - mine works very well and it is boringly effective. In summary, either caliber should be selected based upon your likes.
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