6 ARC & 6.8 I'm confused?

[gotboostvr]

When one cave dweller carved a wheel, one cave dweller had a wheel. The mobility of the world did not change.

When factories began rolling wheels out of the door at a few thousand per day, the world was changed.

Ideas don’t become paradigms just because one person had the idea.

I shot a 6mm Grendel variant for a few years before the ARC came out. I couldn’t fit 108 ELDm’s into my magazines, because the ogives were too long. I had to order custom barrels from limited suppliers, and had to manipulate dies to do what I wanted (.269” bushing in a 6.5 Grendel Redding sizing die, and a 6ppc seating die) - or I could have ordered custom dies from CH4D which only shipped once per year or two, based on sufficient volume orders to run the batch. I had to neck down all of my brass, and load data consisted of whatever BS a few of us cooked up together. Now I can buy lower priced barrels from a broader base of manufacturers, even buy factory rifles off of the shelf, buy dies from the shelf, and have published, pressure confirmed, load data readily available - oh, and they also modified the case to fit higher BC bullets into mag length, so I can shoot bullets with a ~.3G7 rather than a .275G7…

There’s no downside. Quit bitching.

Same issue 300 Whisper had. It was under tight control of JDJ. Limited supply of barrels, dies and ammo.

AAC ran with the ball and opened the floodgates. Suddenly now there's affordable ammo, barrels and dies and easily accessible data.

There wasn't anything wrong with the original cartridges, there was just a high threshold of entry.

 

[David Hoback]

Those are good points gotboostvr. Still.. nothing special about arc. Or the AAC round(other than having off the shelf subsonic ammo for the Tacti-Kewl Range Ninjas with their Silence-suppressiacion jeebles.)

——“No one can hear me! I am a stone My shots are invisible.”

 

[gotboostvr]

Those are good points gotboostvr. Still.. nothing special about arc. Or the AAC round(other than having off the shelf subsonic ammo for the Tacti-Kewl Range Ninjas with their Silence-suppressiacion jeebles.)

——“No one can hear me! I am a stone My shots are invisible.”

There are a few things "special" about the 6ARC though.

Good BC bullets, low recoil, respectable barrel life.

It strikes a good balance for someone who the biggest thing they hunt is deer and likes to hit the range

 

[citizenconn]

There is just no getting around the fact that if you want more performance, you have to go to a bigger case.

Modern case design, powders and bullet construction has been getting around that "fact" pretty well as of late. Your mileage may vary. No offense intended.

 

[3850remhep]

* * * *

 

[Varminterror]

the 6ARC is the 6mm PPC optimized to feed (& simply work well) in the essential AR-15.

The 6 PPC has a longer shoulder angle, so in theory, would feed more reliably than the ARC. But the PPC gives up a little case capacity to the ARC.

Recall fellas, even changing the throat or leade angle forces a change in cartridge designation. And of course, it’s not very intelligent to suggest one brother is handsome while saying his identical twin is ugly.

 

[David Hoback]

People have been quite fooled recently into believing that a 30 deg shoulder somehow defeats all laws of physics as we know it. The 6.5CM started all this; that a smaller case can keep pushing heavier bullets, and at the same velocity. 2 years ago people were claiming 2900fps with 140gr pills in the 6.5CM. That was ridiculous enough! But now they claim the same velocity with 147gr & even the 150, 153gr offerings? Seriously guys. Remember the “Magic Bullet” theory. Well, we now have the “Magic Case”. Yes, Hornady has cracked the code, by Joe! They have fidgeted out the “Horn of Plenty” ratio. Creating cases that push super high BC bullets at unbelievable velocities. Even though almost all the other manufacturers have velocities more in line with reality.

 

[Varminterror]

2 years ago peole were claiming 2900fps with 140gr pills in the 6.5CM. That was ridiculous enough! But now they are claim the same velocity with 147gr & even the 150, 153gr offerings?

We’re putting longer barrels in front of them.

It’s simple physics. Go shoot something instead of just banging your Fudd Drum online.

 

[Skeptic13]

One thing that I thought was interesting and I have not seen mentioned yet is that this new 6.8x51 cartridge has been designed with the max pressure of 80000 psi. That is over 30% increase in the max pressure of the 7.62x51 NATO. That is how they are going to achieve higher velocities out of the shorter barrels.

 

[gun'sRgood]

To those who regarded my thread with a modicum of interest and artful response, I thank you. The concept of the thread was to seek clarification of two specific items. I wholeheartedly agreed and enjoyed folks liken to D. Hoback, MAKster, bfoosh006, rizbunK77, and CapnMAC. To David Hoback and CapnMAC, thanks guys. It's folks like you that make this forum so very enjoyable. You guys make it feel like you're talking to a friend or perhaps an uncle that gave you guidance as you grew. Well done guys! Quite enjoyable as well as educational. To those who thought the thread well beneath their time, intellect and this forum, why did you bother to relieve yourself in my playground? It's the guy who think the thread should never have existed that can't seem to stay out of it that mystifies me. According to Hornaday, the 6 ARC is to bridge the 5.56 and .308 with a significant weight reduction from the .308. And greater terminal performance at greater distance than the 5.56. The 6.8's concept is to take the .308 and stretch out its efficiency in weight, accuracy and distance. The thread was in desire to explore these claims by Hornaday's. How a bourgeois cave dweller's impoverished attempt at how a paradigm shift came from his need to order custom barrels and takes credit for cooking up what today is off the shelf available for the pedestrian shooter is neither interesting or pertinent to this thread. Its become my belief that the cry for help is sincere.

 

[Varminterror]

@gun'sRgood - you rehashed a topic which has been beaten to death here for the last 2 years since the 6 ARC was leaked by SAAMI (6 pages found here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-6mm-advanced-rifle-cartridge.865101/) and last 3 years since the NGSW solicitation derived the .277 Fury (5 pages found here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ifle-will-be-chambered-in-270-win-ish.847068/ and another 4 pages on the composite case tech found here: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-future-of-rifle-ammunition.859690/#post-11305556)

There exist a LOT of threads on this forum and others which have made every statement and conclusion drawn here. Searching the forum, as I originally suggested, would have brought you to this same information.

A few folks - @David Hoback in particular of late - like to just complain that new things are new, and hearing this same Fudd Drum gets old. A few truths - whatever the Armed Forces choose will either not affect us in this forum in any way, as civilians, or will change what our Servicemen and Women members are carrying, regardless of their opinion on the matter. If you just want to hear BS opinions and speculation from armchair quarterbacks about logistics, broadscale M4 replacements, read these threads, or the hundreds of other threads and online blog articles like them, then fine. But it gets old when more and more folks like this start new threads so we all get to rehash the same tired Fudd crap about about “it’s the same as 6ppc,” or “it’s not new, because people wildcatted the Grendel,” or “the three piece .277 Fury cases can’t be reloaded, that’s gun control in disguise,” or “there’s no way to replace the existing inventory of M4’s and 5.56 ammo” or “80,000psi won’t hold up very long,” blah blah tired BS blah…

If your observation bias is towards Fudd BS, then you were well fed in this thread. And folks actually interested in shooting sports which might be benefitted by using a 6 ARC or .277 Fury are unfortunately derailed by Fudds being Fudds.

 

[gun'sRgood]

Hhmm... During my tenure as a psychotherapist in a level four forensic ward, Colorado State Institute of Mental Health, I would have seen you fit in well with a variety of mentally challenged patients. I'm here to discuss the 6 ARC and the 6.8 in relation to Hornaday and the military with the folks as I mentioned above. Had I desired to do a research paper it would appear you would have been an interesting source. Not to "beat your dead horse", but if you have no further interest in this topic, why bother constantly belittling those of us who do wish to discuss this thread? As best as I can tell, why not start your own site, "Ask Verinterror" He knows everything! That would be far more the reality of "your truth". If you don't like the channel you're watching, change it!

 

[citizenconn]

Hhmm... During my tenure as a psychotherapist in a level four forensic ward, Colorado State Institute of Mental Health, I would have seen you fit in well with a variety of mentally challenged patients. I'm here to discuss the 6 ARC and the 6.8 in relation to Hornaday and the military with the folks as I mentioned above. Had I desired to do a research paper it would appear you would have been an interesting source. Not to "beat your dead horse", but if you have no further interest in this topic, why bother constantly belittling those of us who do wish to discuss this thread? As best as I can tell, why not start your own site, "Ask Verinterror" He knows everything! That would be far more the reality of "your truth". If you don't like the channel you're watching, change it!

Feel free to take a smile....

 

[gun'sRgood]

Gotcha & agree! Thx.

 

[David Hoback]

Hhmm... During my tenure as a psychotherapist in a level four forensic ward, Colorado State Institute of Mental Health, I would have seen you fit in well with a variety of mentally challenged patients. I'm here to discuss the 6 ARC and the 6.8 in relation to Hornaday and the military with the folks as I mentioned above. Had I desired to do a research paper it would appear you would have been an interesting source. Not to "beat your dead horse", but if you have no further interest in this topic, why bother constantly belittling those of us who do wish to discuss this thread? As best as I can tell, why not start your own site, "Ask Verinterror" He knows everything! That would be far more the reality of "your truth". If you don't like the channel you're watching, change it!

My pleasure bud. As to this brilliant response, I guess you are responding to one of the 2 or 3 talking heads I’m ignoring? I don’t see content from them because they aren’t worth my time. But your response to whatever word diarrhea that came came from “nobody cares” is hilarious As I said in the beginning: you have the same right to post as anyone. Honestly, I’m not sure why a few get so triggered. Sad lives I guess.

 

[mshootnit]

I am just going to throw this out there. Pretty sure that the only thing a 6mm arc can do significantly better than a 6.5G, 6.8SPC, or 5.56 is punch paper at distance. Period.
And the 6.5 Creedmoor is better than all of them except for fitting into an AR15. There lies the conundrum. Hence all this FURY. Bigger case better results. Dont believe me?

OK to prove my point, I am going to see which one of us gets better accuracy and terminal performance, your choice or mine. And I am going to set the distance at 3871 yds.(longest recorded sniper kill) You pick your best (and I mean BEST) 6mm ARC. Ok, now I am going to go and pick out a random (yes RANDOM) M1 Abrams tank with trained crew. We fire 10 shots each on 10 consecutive days, no matter the wind. Who will get more hits on target? Who wins in the terminal performance category? The ARC loses out! But just dont ask me to carry the Abrams! So yeah, case size matters.

 

[eyeshot]

I've always appreciated your thoughts. If you would point me in the right direction I'd happily remove this myself. My apologies for any ad nauseum I may have caused.

Don't worry about it. Post what you want. This is a forum and everything under the sun has been hashed over multiple times before. "V" seems to be very knowledgeable but if everyone felt the way he does this would a dirt road with nobody to talk to and not a high road.

It's all new news to me because my memory . . . . .

 

[David Hoback]

Well, some are hear to help, and show others how to do things. (Or even DO them! I do free trigger jobs for people, free repairs. Set up their rigs. Build uppers, yadda, yadda. I’ve even machined some parts and given them away… just cause I love this stuff! Never charge a dime!)

And “some” are hear to ring their own bell, stroke their own ego(among other, A’hem, “Things”…), and put others down. Makes me sick.

 

[citizenconn]

There lies the conundrum. Hence all this FURY. Bigger case better results.

No, the FURY is Sig's civilian version of the aforementioned 6.8. It really is confusing.

 

[gun'sRgood]

I am just going to throw this out there. Pretty sure that the only thing a 6mm arc can do significantly better than a 6.5G, 6.8SPC, or 5.56 is punch paper at distance. Period.
And the 6.5 Creedmoor is better than all of them except for fitting into an AR15. There lies the conundrum. Hence all this FURY. Bigger case better results. Dont believe me?

OK to prove my point, I am going to see which one of us gets better accuracy and terminal performance, your choice or mine. And I am going to set the distance at 3871 yds.(longest recorded sniper kill) You pick your best (and I mean BEST) 6mm ARC. Ok, now I am going to go and pick out a random (yes RANDOM) M1 Abrams tank with trained crew. We fire 10 shots each on 10 consecutive days, no matter the wind. Who will get more hits on target? Who wins in the terminal performance category? The ARC loses out! But just dont ask me to carry the Abrams! So yeah, case size matters.

I will gladly give you my 6.5cm, my new 6 ARC and while I'm at it, my 50 BMG if you'll take me for a ride in your Abrams and let me shoot anything at 3871yds. I getcha point! Fun way to explain it. Thx!

 

[gun'sRgood]

Couln't

Don't worry about it. Post what you want. This is a forum and everything under the sun has been hashed over multiple times before. "V" seems to be very knowledgeable but if everyone felt the way he does this would a dirt road with nobody to talk to and not a high road.

It's all new news to me because my memory . . . . .

I could not have said it better. I have over 11 years in university education and have lost count on how many research papers I've done. Now days, to chat with folks who have similar interests means more to me than cold, dehumanizing research. I got to chat with Steve Hornaday during the Atlanta NRA show. It's interesting to hear who here shares his thoughts. Now as far as my memory is concerned? What were we talking about? Thx!

 

[gun'sRgood]

Well, some are hear to help, and show others how to do things. (Or even DO them! I do free trigger jobs for people, free repairs. Set up their rigs. Build uppers, yadda, yadda. I’ve even machined some parts and given them away… just cause I love this stuff! Never charge a dime!)

And “some” are hear to ring their own bell, stroke their own ego(among other, A’hem, “Things”…), and put others down. Makes me sick.

Same, I've given everything I've got extra to the guys who can use it. When enjoying the BP folks I get a kick out of sending lead. The USP "If it fit's, it ships!" I doubt they had me in mind. There's just something about making someone else's

No, the FURY is Sig's civilian version of the aforementioned 6.8. It really is confusing.
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Gad Zooks! Another one?!?! I built the 6ARC thinking that it might make a fine hog hunter. That and I'm a bit 6.5 cm'ed out! Thanks!
day. That comes around goes around? Well worth the time and effort. Thx.

 

[citizenconn]

deleted

 

[citizenconn]

I was just being a smart@$$, but that is what Sig is calling it.
I just ordered my first three 6 ARC barrels. I'm interested to see how you fare with them for hog hunting. I like a nice big exit hole with a good blood trail for hogs and am always paranoid small caliber bullets will seal right back up.

 

[marksman13]

I was just being a smart@$$, but that is what Sig is calling it.
I just ordered my first three 6 ARC barrels. I'm interested to see how you fare with them for hog hunting. I like a nice big exit hole with a good blood trail for hogs and am always paranoid small caliber bullets will seal right back up.

Honestly depends on your end game. If you intend to eat them, I’m with you. Bigger bullets with bigger exit wounds make for better tracking. Personally, I’m not eating them, so I don’t care if they die where they stand or run a thousand yards. I just want them to die. That said, I’ve shot pigs with about everything imaginable from an AR and the results are about the same until you get up to 308 and 6.5 CM vs the cartridges that fit in the AR-15 magazines. The only exception I’ve found to that rule is the 6.8 SPC. I don’t know what magic it possesses, but that round just seems to kill faster than it’s AR-15 chambered cousins.