"60 Minutes" tonight (Glock might not be our friend)

[Zundfolge]

I am curious to see how Glock responds to the firestorm they are about to have hit them (figure by middle of Monday morning someone at Glock will be squirming).

I don't trust 60 minutes any farther then I could throw Ed Bradly, so I'm not ready to start yelling for a boycott.

LaPierre did a decent job, but he never pointed out that the "fingerprint" of guns changes as they're fired.

I would bet even money that La Pierre did say something about ballistic "fingerprints" changing as guns are fired, but 60 minutes never does a story without an agenda, therefore anything that doesn't fit their agenda hits the cutting room floor (more reason I'm not ready to hang Glock ... yet). The folk at 60 minutes are NOT journalists ... they are propagandists.

I wish now I'd watched the 60min in question. I purposely didn't because when I start yelling at the damn TV my poor corgi goes and hides under the bed in the other room


If indeed Glock supports a ballistic fingerprinting database then boycott away (I still think people where too forgiving of Ruger).

 

[JeremyIA]

It was a shame to forgive Ruger. It would be a travesty to forgive Glock. Ruger supported hi-cap magazine bans. Glock seemingly supports a national database that could later be used to confiscate our means of self-preservation.

 

[denfoote]

It's a good thing I shoot my Walther P99 better than my Glocks!!

 

[twoblink]

Well, one of the major "ingredients" of gun alteration is toothpaste... I mean, that is some seriously blackmarket stuff...

I think until I see the transcript, as much as I hate Glocks, I think their positions might be, whatever you guys want, sure, we'll comply. Just know this is an act of stupidity..

But if they are really "selling out" then we have a serious Grock problem...

 

[Kahr carrier]

:banghead:

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Didn't see the show. Some thoughts for the boycotters...

Unpleasantness from 60 Minutes does not surprise me at all. However, I'm not going to rush to judgement just yet. It's a bit early, and I want to give Glock a chance to respond in a context that is not so firmly entrenched in the enemy's camp. It's been, what, a few HOURS since the show aired?

I mean, c'mon now, it's not like Glock signed on to the S&W/HUD agreement or something. One corporate VP mouthing some platitudes on TV does not a commitment make. In the context of today's corrupt corporate environment, you actually assign this guy that much credibility? Why, if you don't trust the media because they spin things around to suit themselves, are you so instantly willing to believe this show as gospel truth?

So Mr. VP told the media what they wanted to hear so his company didn't get attacked. That sounds like CYA to me, that doesn't cost much. Glock can easily disavow their "position" without consequense if neccessary, without giving the media ammunition to sink them.

We should not let this relatively minor presentation cause rifts in the gun comunnity. We cannot afford devisivness at this time. DITCHING GLOCK MEANS THAT MIKE WALLACE WON THIS ROUND! Are you going to make it that easy for him? We lose when we let the media define the outcome for us, without even TRYING to shrug it off.

We NEED Glock. They're one of the bigger players in the industry, with more resources available for survival than most of the rest of gun makers. I find it hard to believe that they would so soon forget what happened to S&W. They're not THAT dense.

Ol' Mikey boy don't make policy in this country, last time I looked. ALL of the articles I've seen about ballistic fingerprinting lately have universally stated that it's basically unworkable, despite the ATF's whining to the contrary. The economy stinks, and we're about to launch into a war. Somehow I don't see the gubmint being able to justify the costs of such a program in that context.

This doesn't mean I'm saying that you should run out and buy a Glock right now to support the company. They're not under direct attack right this second. But if you were thinking about it, go ahead and keep on thinking about it. You aren't going to let Mike Wallace determine what you're going to buy, are you? He has lousy taste in guns.

I'm going to extend the benefit of the doubt for less altruistic reasons as well. Glock makes some good guns, and the PRK is somewhat design-choice limited these days. We cannot afford to lose anymore options than we already have.

And I want a G-29 in the worst way. I used to hate Glocks until I got my G-32. At least Glock bothered to pay the stupid DOJ test/listing fees for their entire line. That's more than I can say for some of the other guns I want in the future. Glock didn't give up on the PRK despite our severe liberal pollution and outright legislative extortion. That inclines me to not give up on them just yet.

 

[jmbg29]

I would bet even money that La Pierre did say something about ballistic "fingerprints" changing as guns are fired, but 60 minutes never does a story without an agenda, therefore anything that doesn't fit their agenda hits the cutting room floor (more reason I'm not ready to hang Glock ... yet). The folk at 60 minutes are NOT journalists ... they are propagandists.

Exactly!

I didn't see Gaston Glock say anything, DID ANY OF YOU?

I saw some vice-flunky flapping his yap. Nothing more.

200 Glock execs could have told 60 Minutes to off for all we know. 60 Minutes would never put anyone on that doesn't already agree with them unless they can find a way to do it while making the person look crazy or moronic.

Flunky boy said something stupid, but that was a foregone conclusion anyway, since one cannot speak with 60 Minutes and expect to do anything other than look stupid if 60 Minutes gets one in front of their cameras. It is what they do. They have been doing it for 35 friggin' years! Who does not know this by now?????

Talking to 60 Minutes is suicide. Flunky boy and LaPierre should get their heads examined! :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Robby from Long Island]

I remember when Glocks first came out. Picked one up and thought it felt like a 2X4 in my hand. Didn't like them then and don't like them now.

Glock lovers have always tried to offset their ugly appearance by saying how their Glocks never fail to go bang when their triggers are pulled. Well, neither have my Smith & Wesson's, Beretta's or Para-Ordnance's.

Lately, without even owning one, have more reason than ever not to like "Perfection".

Safe shooting.

 

[Detachment Charlie]

First, we don't need Glock. Glock needs us, the market.
Second, creative editing can create monsters. Glock needs to immediately counter the statements.
Third, a corporate VP isn't some "flunky." A VP's lips don't move without thinking of his career and the company "line."
Fourth, Glock does thrive on the Gov't market. However, once a mere councilman starts yapping that the guns lack a safety and would be dangerous on the street, Glock could be dropped from a potential supplier list faster than a hot rock. (Cheap local politicians can be "useful idiots" if you know how to play them. That usually means dropping a quarter in their slot.)
Remember, either you are with me, or against me.

 

[4thHorseman]

I called Gock.I spoke to the secretary. She thought it was funny. When she laughed, I told her I didn't appreciate it, and that I was a strong supporter of the Second Ammendment.
She directed me to the legal department. Some guy started back peddling. He was statrted stamering and studdering. I told him the same thing is going to happen to Glock that happen to S&W.
Call the at 1-770- 432-1202 and voice your opinion.
Fax 1-770-433-8719

 

[4thHorseman]

By the way, the legal department supported 100% what 60 minutes stated. I asked if 60 Minutes took any thing out of context, he said "NO." I asked if everything 60 Minutes stated was true? He said "For the most part it was."
Call them at 1-770- 432-1202 and voice your opinion.
Fax 1-770-433-8719

 

[Nightcrawler]

You know, sometimes I think that Glock could require all civilian purchasers to be beat with a tree branch and the Glock Perfection crowd would still line up to take their beating and get their plastic fantastics.

Is anyone especially suprised that an Austrian company doesn't give a crap about US Civil Liberties? What kind of gun rights do they get in Austria?

Glock heavily favors the LE crowd. They could likely stay in business without any civilian sales, but it certianly wouldn't be in their best interest.

I'd be shocked and amazed to see any kind of Glock boycott, regardless of what kind of stunts Glock pulls. Again, there are too many...well, rabid Glock fans to ever have that happen.

Let me define the "Rabid Glock Fan". I was once discussing the Glock 21 with such a fellow. I mentioned that it didn't fit my hand; between the Hump and the Finger Grooves, it was just uncomfortable to hold.

He got mad at me! He INSISTED that the Glock has the same grip diameter as the 1911 (which is absurd) and that if the G21 didn't fit my hand, I must be holding it wrong. He thought I should buy one anyway, and make myself get used to the grip.

Left an impression on me, that's for sure. Sure as heck didn't make me run out and drop $600 (about $200 too expensive for what you get, IMO) for a Glock 21, though.

 

[4thHorseman]

"DITCHING GLOCK MEANS THAT MIKE WALLACE WON THIS ROUND!"

No Sir it does not. If we let it go it means we believe what was said, we won't do anything about it and the rest of the gun makers can follow suit.
How quickly some of us forget about the S&W deal. S&W quickly got that that ******* out of there, didn't they?
I'm furious about this SELL OUT.

 

[mjustice]

I watched the entire segment. If this Glock VP did not mean what he said, then he must of done a ton of backpedalling after that statement, and *ALL OF IT* must have been edited out.

I'll spring for a copy of the transcript and a certified letter to Glock. I was never a rabid Glock fan, and after last night's showing, it would take some serious explaining from Glock in writing before I would ever consider one of their pistols again.

I think we're all convinced that ballistics fingerprinting is not a fingerprint and really is not a crime-fighting tool. Even the segment last night made it clear. Any criminal willing to file/grind off a serial number will go the extra step and make some changes to the firing pin, extractor, breech face, etc.

Glocks comments fly in the face of the millions of dollars that hard-working, law-abiding gun owners have spent on their products over the years. We deserve an explaination.

MJ

 

[ZekeLuvs1911]

No Glocks for me. Ugly pieces of &%&5 when it came out and my other guns also goes bang for me everytime I pull the trigger. They can disappear for all I care.

 

[trapshooter]

I predict a glut of glocks on the market in the next few weeks. There's stupid, then there's ssstttuuuupppiiiddd!

This guy, and the'legal' department, are dumber than rocks.

I guess they are content to have the percentage of the LE market that will remain after this. (I bet they'll lose some of what they already have). Within a year, personnel changes coming at glock. (new lawyers, a new VP, and wholesale marketing dept. swapout).

Looks like 'perfection', is spelled 'defection'.

But then, I don't care for the product, anyway. Fat grip, stupid trigger, no exposed hammer. After three strikes, I quit counting.

 

[BadJohn]

Don't forget the VP is a former prosecutor.This may account for his position, which in my opinion,is wrong.

 

[JPM70535]

I saw the segment on 60 minutes and I agree there is no way the Glock reps. statements were taken out of context, and while it certainly looks as though Glock is not our friend, I really can't see where ballistic fingerprinting is going to mean a thing in the overall scheme of thing. We all know how easy it is to change the "Prints" made by our guns. I would be willing to bet that any of us who clean our guns regularly have totally changed the characteristics exhibited when they were new. And any criminal worth his salt now, thanks to 60 minutes now knows how to do the same thing. ( Those too dumb to alter their guns deserve to get caught.)

The real danger in this move is in what it has the potential to lead to. This is just one more step along the road to total firearms registration, which will without a doubt lead to confiscation.

We must not tolerate any attempt by any gun manufacturer to cave in to the liberal left and their view of Political correctness.
I own a Glock, don't particularly like it but if I ever contemplate buying another, I will remember who my friends are and will take my business elsewhere.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Can you say "Price drop on Glocks" I never much cared for them "plastic" guns anyhow.......................... With the HAIRY trigger !!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheOtherOne]

Contrary to most of those in this thread that are on the glock hating bandwagon... I actually like mine. I like the simplicity, I like the grip, I like the look, I like the (no) hammer, I like the trigger, I like the lightweight! And the G27 is the best carry gun in my opinion: A .40 in that small package is impressive to me!

BUT, all that said, if Glock takes up an official position of supporting ballistic fingerprinting then I'll boycott them. Like others here have said, it's just going to end up being another step to the ultimate end of our (legal) gun ownership.

 

[Deathwind]

Just thought I'd post the actual videos of the show so everyone can see and decide for themselves (thanks to chevrofreak over on GT for capturing and encoding)...

Partial Clip (edited for time/size to show just the part of the segment with Glock, Inc.):
Video Here: 60 Minutes - Find the Gun (MPEG1, 45 seconds, 5,029KB) [Mirror 1] (EDU line) (Provided by Deathwind)
Video Here: 60 Minutes - Find the Gun (MPEG1, 45 seconds, 5,029KB) [Mirror 2] (DSL 20kbps) (Provided by nothing)
Video Here: 60 Minutes - Find the Gun (MPEG1, 45 seconds, 5,029KB) [Mirror 3] (DS3) (Provided by nothing)

Full segment:
Video Here: 60 Minutes - Find The Gun - Full Story (WMV (requires Windows Media Player), 12:30, 25,272kb) [Mirror 1] (EDU line)
Video Here: 60 Minutes - Find The Gun - Full Story (WMV, 12:30, 25,272kb) [Mirror 2] (DSL 20kbps) (Provided by nothing)

 

[jar]

Before dismissing anything on the Ballistic Fingerprint Database, it doesn't matter is it works or not, OR if the fingerprint can be changed or not.

The Ballistic Fingerprint Database will require when each gun is sold, the casings along with the buyer's information be sent to the State to be entered into the database.

This is not a step on the road to National Handgun Registry, It IS National Handgun Registry!

 

[schild]

I just spoke to someone in Glock's legal dept., yes a lot of backpeddeling! The guy said Glock would do what ever was required by law. I told him I have three Glocks and I wouldn't be buying more.

 

[Boats]

I had been on the fence as to whether I should buy a Glock 20 or a CZ 85B. That dilemma just resolved itself in a hurry last night.

It is funny. S&W sold out to HUD for apparent LE federal market advantage. Glock is apparently selling out to the antis to indirectly curry favor with LE. Some people never learn. All the while, Beretta, which makes a ton of dough off the government, has been pretty staunch about RKBA and lawsuits without any perceptible downside. Go figure.

 

[muddyboots]

I quit watching "60 Minutes" when they did the hit piece on Audi. They don't do news; they do propaganda.

As for the Glock, the trigger stinks. Get a Sig. If you don't like the double-action first shot, get a 1911.