6mm Creed or .243 Winchester

[Varminterror]

My 6 creed and 6 Dasher barrels are 1:7.5” as were my 243AI’s they replaced. I have had 2 1:8” 6 creed barrels, they work, but 1:7.5” is better - the difference wouldn’t matter as much up close on big targets, but it’s noticeable.

 

[WisBorn]

Wouldn't it be fun to have two rifles same model and setup one in 243 win & one on 6mm cm. Take them out and self test them.
Shoot at 100, 300, 500, & 1000 yards measure group size averages just to see if the science of the ballistics holds true in personal testing! Just another way to spend more time on the range

 

[gotboostvr]

Wouldn't it be fun to have two rifles same model and setup one in 243 win & one on 6mm cm. Take them out and self test them.
Shoot at 100, 300, 500, & 1000 yards measure group size averages just to see if the science of the ballistics holds true in personal testing! Just another way to spend more time on the range

You pick up the tab, I'll do the grunt work. I'll even let you keep one of the rifles when I've got my findings!

 

[horsey300]

You pick up the tab, I'll do the grunt work. I'll even let you keep one of the rifles when I've got my findings!

His choice?

 

[dranrab]

.243 24" barrel 95 gr bullet staball 6.5 max velocity 3171
6 creed 24" barrel 108 gr bullet staball 6.5 max velocity 3088

Are those loads being run at the same pressure?

 

[gotboostvr]

His choice?

Sure, why not. I think that's more than fair.

 

[horsey300]

Are those loads being run at the same pressure?

From hodgdon, the creed is at 59,500, win at 58,400.

 

[Varminterror]

Wouldn't it be fun to have two rifles same model and setup one in 243 win & one on 6mm cm. Take them out and self test them.

Lots of us have shot 243win for many years, and now have shot thousands of rounds in 6 creed. The sad part is when we know we can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them think.

 

[brutus51]

I want to thank you all for your feedback but I think I'm going to put this project on the back burner for a while until rifles become more available. Not having any pressing need and the newer offerings have caught my interest. Once again thanks for your input.

 

[WisBorn]

You pick up the tab, I'll do the grunt work. I'll even let you keep one of the rifles when I've got my findings!

Don't hold your breath!
A couple low end rifles and scopes would work. 1000 yards might be a little hard, but the other distances would be fun!

Thanks for your dig

 

[WisBorn]

Lots of us have shot 243win for many years, and now have shot thousands of rounds in 6 creed. The sad part is when we know we can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them think.

I think some people need to see it side by side. It would be fun. The shooter may be surprised in a close head to head shoot off

 

[LoonWulf]

Huh....I need a Ruger American predator in .243 and I could do it. Heck I'd even toss in a 6.5 and .300wm to make it MORE EDJAMACATIONAL!

So who's got the .243 for me......

 

[troy fairweather]

Huh....I need a Ruger American predator in .243 and I could do it. Heck I'd even toss in a 6.5 and .300wm to make it MORE EDJAMACATIONAL!

So who's got the .243 for me......

There's one at the gun shop I go to, forget what they wanted. Would be nice seeing them sxs.

 

[LoonWulf]

While Im sure the individual rifle difference would out way the performance difference between the .243 and 6mm......it would still be fun

 

[Varminterror]

I think some people need to see it side by side. It would be fun. The shooter may be surprised in a close head to head shoot off

It’s a 6mm bullet trucking only 100-200fps difference. Whether 6x45, 243 LBC, 6 BR, 6 Dasher, 6 GT, 6 Creed, 243 WSSM, 243 win, or 243 AI, the differences down range are notable, but largely inconsequential. A little more and a little more...

But relatively, I worked my ass off creating consistent and forgiving loads in 243win compared to 6 creed, and had to replace barrels considerably more often. Trajectory and speed aren’t the only measure of a cartridge, else we’d never shoot anything except huge magnum cartridges.

 

[LoonWulf]

only measure of a cartridge, else we’d never shoot anything except huge magnum cartridges.

I volunteer someone else for that challenge........

 

[WisBorn]

It’s a 6mm bullet trucking only 100-200fps difference. Whether 6x45, 243 LBC, 6 BR, 6 Dasher, 6 GT, 6 Creed, 243 WSSM, 243 win, or 243 AI, the differences down range are notable, but largely inconsequential. A little more and a little more...

But relatively, I worked my ass off creating consistent and forgiving loads in 243win compared to 6 creed, and had to replace barrels considerably more often. Trajectory and speed aren’t the only measure of a cartridge, else we’d never shoot anything except huge magnum cartridges.

No disrespect, I don't have a horse in the race! I also believe that technology improves our sport and history enhances it.
Two rifles side by side would be fun. An accuracy test.
LoonWulf said it, the rifle difference would be the test. Grab two different rifles and get different results.

I'm sure the advantages of the 6mm cm and 6.5 cm can be noticeable, but there ballistic twins aren't going anywhere soon.

 

[JFrank]

when I started to shoot local Benchrest events ( not all that long ago) a couple fellas had 243 w , I seem to recall a Creedmoor or two as well. A fella one day shot a 2.3/4 ish 10 shot group at 600 yards I witnessed that one, but not anymore it seems dominated by 6 mm BR variations with fast twist or 300wsm then short range a slow twist 6 ppc or 30 br
Hard to get to much more side by side comparison than a Benchrest format.

 

[Noz]

I currently own neither, but, by next weekend one will live in my house,
What I have gathered from this forum is choose 243 for a 243 diameter bullet, a faster twist for heavy bullets at 300 plus yards. Makes a 243 dia hole in a deer rib.
Choose a 6/6.5mm because it shoots a 243 bullet(mostly)slower twist for stabilizing of longer heavy bullets suitable for long range shooting(at any range the bullet remains .243 and makes same size hole in a deer rib.)
The whole thing breaks down to the classic jeep/corvette argument. They both will get you there just jeep-.243 takes a little longer and is not quite as sexy as the 6.5 mm.

 

[troy fairweather]

You got your jeep and vette mixed up.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You got your jeep and vette mixed up.

I dunno, I'd take a Jeep (well, a CJ, nothing newer) over a Vette any day, but one thing he did get mixed up is his twist rates. You need a faster twist to shoot longer/heavier bullets. (So...lower ratios. 1:7 is faster than 1:10)

 

[JFrank]

I’m an 8 twist kinda guy weather 6 or 6.5 mm and skip the 243 win and go straight for the modern design of the CM or BR.
Vettes and Jeep both have a cool factor, owned 3 vettes I just picked up my first Jeep. Both are a bi##ch to get in N out of

 

[horsey300]

I currently own neither, but, by next weekend one will live in my house,
What I have gathered from this forum is choose 243 for a 243 diameter bullet, a faster twist for heavy bullets at 300 plus yards. Makes a 243 dia hole in a deer rib.
Choose a 6/6.5mm because it shoots a 243 bullet(mostly)slower twist for stabilizing of longer heavy bullets suitable for long range shooting(at any range the bullet remains .243 and makes same size hole in a deer rib.)
The whole thing breaks down to the classic jeep/corvette argument. They both will get you there just jeep-.243 takes a little longer and is not quite as sexy as the 6.5 mm.

6cm comes standard with a faster twist to stabilize the long long bullets.
.243 is a smidge faster in velocity, but standard twists range from 9-10 which means that depending on manufacturer, you may be stuck with 100 gr prohunter/partition/95sst performance, if you have a 9 twister, you may get the 103, 95 vld etc to stabilize but you'll still be missing out on the super longs.
Both use the same diameter bullet. If your .243 has a fast twist (custom barrel) then you can run whatever you want. The 6cm cartridge is designed slightly more efficiently to gain similar (albeit slightly less) speeds with slightly less powder (think of a .22-250 ai necked up to .243 and you'll be close enough to get the general idea). Both cartridges will kill similar game with similar effectiveness, but the advantage of being able to stabilize the super long bullets (for the 6cm) will mean less wind drift and farther total distance before the bullet goes transonic. For anything under 500(ish) yds, most hunters will never know the difference between the two cartridges if we are comparing a 9 twister and 8 twister. They SHOULD notice the difference by the time their rangefinder gets much over 250 yds (which is still much farther than the average deer is shot). The varmint hunters shooting at smaller targets farther away should definitely see the difference easily, as the paper punchers do as well.
This year we are testing some real slippery bullets in .243 with 9.25/9.125 barrels and they definitely suffice for the given purpose of 500 yd wind buckers but we KNOW that a 108 eld would be something more ideal. That is a project load that requires a new barrel, or just a new rifle already chambered in 6cm.

 

[Aletheia]

The whole thing breaks down to the classic jeep/corvette argument. They both will get you there just jeep-.243 takes a little longer and is not quite as sexy as the 6.5 mm.

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. After reading the many pages of effort to make a significant differentiation between the .243 and the 6mm Creed, it should be obvious that the differences are tiny, insignificant unless you are measuring things VERY finely, and not nearly like the differences between a Jeep and a Corvette which are huge, and which make the two vehicles obviously suited to different kinds of transportation. This argument continues because way too many people think the differences are as significant as the Jeep/Corvette analogy, when it should be more like the differences between a Jeep with cloth seats, and a Jeep with leather seats. I expect very soon this discussion will devolve into an argument about angels on the head of a pin.

For hunters, there will be no differences in performance on game between the two rounds. For target shooters with calipers to measure the subtle differences at extreme ranges, the small "advantages" of the Creed. may be worth the decision process. But this thread proves that shooters can spend a lot of time and energy trying to prove things that matter very little, except to a very few.

 

[horsey300]

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. After reading the many pages of effort to make a significant differentiation between the .243 and the 6mm Creed, it should be obvious that the differences are tiny, insignificant unless you are measuring things VERY finely, and not nearly like the differences between a Jeep and a Corvette which are huge, and which make the two vehicles obviously suited to different kinds of transportation. This argument continues because way too many people think the differences are as significant as the Jeep/Corvette analogy, when it should be more like the differences between a Jeep with cloth seats, and a Jeep with leather seats. I expect very soon this discussion will devolve into an argument about angels on the head of a pin.

For hunters, there will be no differences in performance on game between the two rounds. For target shooters with calipers to measure the subtle differences at extreme ranges, the small "advantages" of the Creed. may be worth the decision process. But this thread proves that shooters can spend a lot of time and energy trying to prove things that matter very little, except to a very few.

The cartridge difference is indeed minute, it's the rifles themselves that make the deciding factor, even within the .243 chamberings alone, my Savage and remington standard twists blow my brother/dad/sister-in-law's win/howa rifles away as they are limited to shorter bullet lengths, if the .243 was standardized with an 8 twist instead of a myriad of slower twists, we'd have nothing at all to debate lol!