7.62 Nagant Revolver

[SEVENPOINT]

I'm pretty much into milsurp firearms, and the Nagant revolver has cought my eye.


I like this pistol, I like it's history, I like the way it feels, and I like the way it looks.

There is one thing that is sort of shunning me away from buying one though, and that is the trigger pull. 13# single action, and 20# double action. Thats way too much for me, espically in a handgun.


My question is, is there any way to considerably lighten the trigger,without sacraficing saftey? I understand that this firearm has no saftey, and thats why the trigger is so heavy. Nevertheless, this pistol will be locked in a safe, with the ammunition stored sepreatly, where noone can get to it. It will not be loaded until ready to fire, and the muzzle will always be in a safe direction. I do this with all my farearms, except for the one I keep for home defense. I'm kind of a gun saftey freak, if there can be such a thing.

I'm not talking about lightening this thing down to a few pounds, just to where I can shoot it comfortably.


Thanks.

 

[unspellable]

trigger pull & safety

I do not think reducnng the pull i nand of itself will result in a saftey problem. Most revovlers have a much lighter pull and are viewed as safe.

The real question is can the pull be safely reduced from the standpoint of the mechanical innards of the revolver? here I cannot answer, I'm not that familiar with the innards of a Nagent. But as examples, a S&W can be set to a light and crisp pull. On the other hand I have a Colt style repoduction cap & ball with a very creepy trigger. There is no way to eliminate the creep with out reducing the sear engagement to an unsafe condition. I nother words it would be too liable to going off if dropped ot the hammer bumped.

 

[White Horseradish]

I've seen a Russian tuning manual for it and adjusting the DA pull requires reshaping of the mainspring by filing. I'll see if I can find where I saw the instructions.

 

[RON in PA]

With perhaps a very few exceptions, historically revolvers have not had safeties. The Nagant (I have 4) usually does have an impossible DA trigger pull, but there are suppossedly some fixes for this. The SA trigger is heavier than what you would expect from a Smith and Wesson, Colt or Ruger of contemporary manufacture but it is shootable and at seven yards i could shoot your eye out all day long. The point is, don't let the Nagant's trigger put you off from getting one or more.

 

[SEVENPOINT]

Horseradish- If you could find that info I would really appreciate it.


If I were to get one I would probably go with the double action. I've shot single action revolvers before and I don't really like it. However I'd really like to get one someday, just trying to find some info about it before I make any purchases.

 

[Moonclip]

I have one and I just consider it a sa revolver especially since it has a sa revolver type of loading/unloading anyways. Accuracy seems like it could be quite good even if the trigger pull was normal. I shot some decent groups in sa.

As the Soviets made a target version of this gun and even won some international competitions with it I'm sure there had to be a way it was made to have a superior trigger pull.

 

[unspellable]

Nagent accuracy

There are two advantages the Nagent has due to shoving the case mouth into the barrel. First, you have good chamber to barrel alignment without depending on the bolt and notch location as in other revolvers. Second, the bullet goes directly from case mouth to barrel as in a single shot without going through a throat and forcing cone with the attendant distortion.

But you still gotta have a decent trigger and sights.

 

[Kor]

I got a Nagant a couple of months ago, mainly because it's date/manufacturer markings match a Mosin-Nagant rifle I also own(Tula Arsenal, 1926).

The mainspring is a V-shaped leaf spring, like the old-style Colt DA revolvers, and one of the old quick-'n-dirty tricks for a Colt trigger jov was to take off the sideplate, put a piece of drill rod(or similar metal object) inside the "V" and cock the hammer. This would put a bend in the mainspring, lessening the tension on the hammer.

The only downside was, if you lightened the hammer-spring tension too much, the revolver would fail to fire, and you would need to buy another mainspring because the old one would be ruined. This could be an even bigger issue on a Nagant because of the reciprocating cylinder.

I'd try it myself, but I haven't been able to find a parts supplier that has the Nagant mainsprings in stock, and the spring in my gun is serialized to the gun, so I don't want to mess up the original. If you want to be the guinea-pig, be my guest.

 

[Old Fuff]

AH ....... DON'T TRY TO BEND OR REFORM THE MAINSPRING!!!

The Colt springs that could be bent using a pin were made from flatstock, not forged like those in the Nagant. (Also don't try bending the older Colt springs, that were also forged).

If I was going to try reducing a mainspring I would lay the original one on a scanner or photo-copy machine and send it to the Parts Corporation (www.e-gunparts.com) and ask them if they could match the print to anything. When I got whatever they sent I would start experimenting while the original one remained safe.

 

[rockstar.esq]

A bit off topic however I wanted to ask if it's true that the nagant round is ballistically similar to the .22mag?

 

[unspellable]

7.62 nagent ballistics

No it's not similar to the 22 Mag. It's closer to the 32 S&W, 32-20, 32 mag type cartridges. Of the currently available loads, the Russian is a midrange target load with a full wadcutter. the Fiocchi load has a hardball. Neither load is anything like a full house service load. They are in the 32 S&W range. A full house service load should get up to the 32-20 factory load range or maybe even the 32 Mag.

If you want full house performance I guess you have to roll your own. I believe the Russian stuff has Berdan primers. The Fiocchi has Boxer primers but has a severe star crimp that might weaken the brass for a reload. Any rumours about Starline making brass?

 

[Marnoot]

Here's a discussion on a Nagant board about the Starline brass. Long story short, it's still shorter than spec Nagant brass because true nagant-length brass will often split at the neck after one firing because of how thin it gets, thus it would be useless to reloaders. I'm happy with forming .32-20 WCF brass for use in mine for now, as it's cheaper than the new nagant brass.

 

[Cosmoline]

I always shot .32 H&R mags in mine. No problems whatsoever with it. The revolver is more than strong enough for the pressure, esp. since .32 H&R's are "Magnums" only in name. The trigger pull, like a Mosin safety, improves character. Everyone should own an Ivan Revolver. If you run out of bullets, you can always hit the guy with it

 

[Stainz]

How do you get a Nagant's SA down to 13#? ... or it's DA to 20#?? Seriously, they are high effort. Remember, when you squeeze the 7-shooter's trigger, the cylinder turns and advances forward, aligning the convex barrel terminus to the concave cylinder exit - with the proper Nagant brass pushing into the barrel for ultimate alignment. Also, a breech block comes up against the cases rim - the long firing pin must make it through both that block and the frame before popping the primer. For reducing effort, some have reported good results with fitting a nut under the lower leg of the leaf to 'pre-load' it - - no luck here thus far with that, however.

As far as ammo, the wimpy yellow boxed Ruskie 'target' ammo made 589 +/- 8 fps and 592 +/- 6fps from my '41 Tula and '44 Ihsvesk Nagants. The cheaper MagTech 98gr LRN .32 S&WL ammo made 628 +/-23 fps and 604 +/-17 fps respectively, but spit due to poor barrel/cylinder exit alignment. Fiocchi ammo in the '44I made 674 +/-6 fps. The proper Nagant ammo needs a SA-style ejector rod due to the expansion of the thin case mouth outside of the cylinder. The too small diameter, and weaker, .32 S&WL cases simply bulge and split, requiring some effort for removal. Reportedly, Aquila makes a more-stout .32 S&WL case, but I haven't verified this.

I tried GA Arms Starline cased .32 H&R Magnum rounds - 100gr JHP @ 1,100 fps, I assume from a 4" barrel, so they should be at least that fast from a Nagant - closely following the 'real' Nagant's ammo ballistics. Sadly, they spit a bit - and swelled cases are difficult to extract. Thus far, no cases can be reloaded. Some folks report fair results with a piece of tape around the smaller .32 cases... no thanks.

I, too, have adapted .32-20 brass, although I turn .024" off the rim and remove .010" off the headstamp before sizing them in a .30 M1 Carbine carbide sizer - and loading a la .32-20/.32 S&W/H&R. I use Meister 100gr LDEWC or Berry's 83gr DEWC over 2.2-2.9gr Titegroup to get 650-800 fps. And... here is the kicker - the cases literally fall out! Finally, a fun to load, fun to shoot Nagant. Of course, adapting ~300 new pieces of brass was time consuming...

The little Nagants are held together basically by one screw - join us over at Gunboards for more info, and get one or two! Hech, get a Curio and Relic ffl, and have them delivered to your door!

Stainz

 

[Marnoot]

I turn .024" off the rim and remove .010" off the headstamp before sizing them

I don't have access to a mini-lathe to turn down the rims, so I was very relieved when I found they would work in mine without any modification. I know they won't work in many(most?) without the modifications you describe. I've been running Meister 94 gr. RNFP over 2.4 grs. Titegroup. Haven't gotten a chance to chrono them yet. Using a Lee nagant sizing die, though I'm tempted by the M1 Carbine carbide one since I wouldn't have to lube... Reloading is definitely the way to go with these to duplicate the power of the original round. The commercially available Nagant ammo is horribly underpowered, as mentioned.

 

[imas]

I'm not sure how much this will apply to this gun but....

You should not try to bend the mainspring but you can try something that seems to work very well for the Makarov. Shave a bit of metal off of the side of the mainspring. Put the gun back together and try it. You only want to do a little bit at a time and at some point you will want to stop so you don't get light primer strikes. I don't have a picture on this computer but the mainspring should start out like this:
l....l
l....l
l....l
then it can be reduced like this:
l..l
l..l
l..l

If I ever get around to picking up a Nagant I'll give it a try.