adcoch1
Member
I will agree with your post wholeheartedly except for a single caveat. Never seen a mini 30 mag that was more reliable than an SKS factory box mag. That magazine is the best component of the rifle.
7.62 X 39 MM Compared to .30/30
- Thread starter Terry G
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35 Whelen
Member
My first SKS quite a few years ago, actually SKS's, were Yugo's. I got three of them, Gunsmith Special's, for $99 each, delivered. Their cracked stocks were easy enough to repair. And anyone who tells you they aren't accurate probably doesn't shoot very well-
(Wolf ammunition @ 100 yds.)
But the Yugo's are fairly hefty rifles and one day it occurred to me that I was toting around a rifle that was nearly as along and as heavy as a Garand, yet that fired a fairly mundane cartridge. So I sold two and gave one to my God son.
Fast forward a dozen years or so and Atlantic Firearms ran a sale on Chinese Type 56's and I couldn't resist. What I received was an 8 lb. 8.6 oz. firearm with grease in every orifice, nook and cranny, including the bore.
After cleaning all that mess off and tossing the bayonet and cleaning rod, I had a trim almost-carbine weighing a little over 7.5 lbs. that now resides in the laundry room gun rack or hanging on the tractor when I'm feeding the cattle, etc. I really like rifles such as these that use a box magazine as they make for a more trim, handy rifle. Should one so choose, extra cartridges or a full stripper clip can be carried in a pocket.
Again, don't let anyone tell you they're inaccurate. I shot this group while regulating the sights-
I keep mine loaded with handloads that run a Winchester 123 gr. SP somewhere north of 2300 fps.
Several Sunday mornings ago this nasty boar showed up about 110 yds. down below the house so I grabbed the SKS and poked him. He ran about 125 yds. and gave up the ghost.
So, to answer the OP's question, no they're not the equivalent of a 30-30 no matter how one twists and spins the ballistics of each. But in the role of a utility rifle for use on game no more than around 250 lbs. out to 150 yds. or so, I'd trust mine. When I shot the boar there was a bolt action .223 loaded with 65 gr. SP's in the rack next to the SKS, but I knew better than to use it!
35W
Purely as a utilitarian hunter of southeastern whitetail deer, I think I’d go with whichever I could find first. I have a 30-30 but not a 7.62x39 and wouldn’t get rid of one to get the other.
The 30-30 has an edge on close range energy and bullet selection. If platform becomes a question the 7.62x39 has more options. I have an unnatural desire for a KS-47.
The 30-30 has an edge on close range energy and bullet selection. If platform becomes a question the 7.62x39 has more options. I have an unnatural desire for a KS-47.
35 Whelen
Member
I REALLY have a soft spot for lever action rifles and a lot of that has to do with their handiness and practicality. However an SKS is almost as practical and almost as trim plus 7.62x39 ammunition is far more common.
Regarding the KS-47, I first bought a 20" Saiga but it just didn't do it for me. Next I bought one of the much maligned AKM-47's and while it shot well, again it just didn't blow my skirt up. So then I built an AR from a kit in 7.62x39. It's significantly more accurate than the Saiga and AKM, but like those two it's just such an albatross to carry around. I much prefer an SKS.
35W
adcoch1
Member
Bear Creek arsenal has affordable x39 uppers. You owe it to yourself to try one out. 7.62x39 may not ever be as cool as 30-30, but it has charm all it's own in an accurate rifle.
daniel craig
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As far as I know, the 30-30 can fit more powder into it's case and has a better bullet selection. Personally I find comparisons like this less then useful because each has its own merits and flaws.
I took 2 doe with my SKS this year and yep, they both died. That's the results I was looking for. I like it and it kills deer so how it compares to a different rifle using a different round out of a different length barrel it's pretty much all irrelevant to me.
It's slightly inconvenient that the SKS has a 10 round mag vs a 5 because hunting regs require no more than 5. Most of the 30-30 guns that I've ever shot, held 5 rounds natively.
Plus talking about how something performs on whitetail isn't for me anyway necessarily a productive talk anyway because it's not like white tail are that difficult to kill, so on my mind it doesn't really matter how the two stack up against each other they're both going to do what you need them to do.
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BJung
Member
A benefit I think of the 30/30 com
If you reload, brass is easier to find. SKS rifles throw their brass into the next county
someguy2800
Member
I wish Tula or Wolf would sell us primed steel cases to load our own disposable handloads. I really enjoy handloading steel case 7.62x39. I saw a website once that was selling 1000 rnd bags of demilled 7.62x39 primmed cases. I should have bought a couple thousand but I waited too long.
adcoch1
Member
I've not reloaded steel yet, but it's in my future for sure.
Ignition Override
Member
Use the type of rifle chambered in 7.62x39 which has the best chance of irking the Anti-gunner Apparatchiks.
Do so while supporting the Sec. Amendment— unlike the indoctrinated FUDDs.
Do so while supporting the Sec. Amendment— unlike the indoctrinated FUDDs.
Phaedrus/69
Member
It's interesting that when we discuss/compare those two rounds we're almost just comparing the '94 Winchester or Marlin to the AK-47 or SKS. When linked to those guns the 30-30 has the disadvantage of having loadings with decent BC bullets (I'm linking mostly LeverRevolution) and commercial 7.32x39 are saddled with FMJ bullets or bimetal-jacked SP that doesn't really expand. Out of a single shot or bolt you could hot rod the former a little bit and occasionally one can find American-made x39 designed for hunting.
As a hunting gun I can perhaps see more reason for the x39, mostly due to the cheap plinking ammo and somewhat-cheapish guns. Really though I suppose it's six of one vs a half-dozen of the other.
If you inherit a rifle in either chambering it can be made to work well within maybe 150 yards if you're talking deer-sized game. Starting from scratch I can't see much reason to choose either if hunting is your main intended use although maybe hog shooting is an exception. Hog hunters seem to really like the x39.
daniel craig
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Lord do they ever! I spent a bunch of time looking for brass after a range day that I almost considered cutting down the spring on my SKS
daniel craig
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Plus at least in my area it's a lot easier to find 30-30 hunting ammo in the store than it is to find hunting ammo for the 7.62x39
someguy2800
Member
I actually pull the bullets from wolf ammo and replace the powder and bullets. It was pretty cheap to do when you could buy it for $3/20. Nice thing about the steel cases is that they have a substantial case capacity increase. This is a fiochi and wolf case with the same powder charge. The only trick is you need to flare the case mouth before seating or it will shave the bullets. Also if you are loading .308 bullets in their place you need to size the neck down more than a typical X39 die will. I neck size them with the base of a 5.7x28 die and then use a .308 expander, then flare, seat, and crimp lightly to eliminate the flare.
I have found deer are not that hard to kill if you do your part. I have taken deer with a AR pistol chambered in .300 BLK with a 8.5" barrel when the deer were 97 yds away. I was using the 110gr Hornady V-Max. The deer didn't take a few more steps & dropped.
So you really don't need a cannon to hunt deer. The only problem I see with the medium power calibers is they drop off at distance so if you are only shooting within 200yds they will work fine as long as you have practiced with your gun. (practice is more than just sighting in)
So you really don't need a cannon to hunt deer. The only problem I see with the medium power calibers is they drop off at distance so if you are only shooting within 200yds they will work fine as long as you have practiced with your gun. (practice is more than just sighting in)
Archie
Member
Too close in reality to tell.
I however, prefer the CZ 557 bolt gun to any semi-automatic.
Also, I prefer heavier bullets than the 'normal' 123-125 grain loadings. So the 154 grain Tula ammunition (showing a lead nose) tend to impress me more. PPU shows some on their website showing both a 150 grain bullet and a 140 grain bullet with respectable velocities. I have not been able to try them.
I've experimented with using a 150 grain bullet (British 303 - .313") is pretty close if .308" bullets seem too different and get pretty good results; but these are for a bolt gun, not a gas gun and could be considered "+p".
I however, prefer the CZ 557 bolt gun to any semi-automatic.
Also, I prefer heavier bullets than the 'normal' 123-125 grain loadings. So the 154 grain Tula ammunition (showing a lead nose) tend to impress me more. PPU shows some on their website showing both a 150 grain bullet and a 140 grain bullet with respectable velocities. I have not been able to try them.
I've experimented with using a 150 grain bullet (British 303 - .313") is pretty close if .308" bullets seem too different and get pretty good results; but these are for a bolt gun, not a gas gun and could be considered "+p".
The Russians were not looking to shoot deer with their 7.62 X39, they were looking to kill Nazi's. Perhaps more Nazi's were killed by Russian submachine guns in 7.62 X 25 Tokrev than any other small arm cartridge. The PPSH type submachine guns were made in the millions and the 7.62X25 round was surprisingly lethal at distance in a submachine gun. However, the Russians wanted a bit more range, without increasing weight, so they came out with the 7.62 X39. If it will kill people, it will kill people sized animals, or smaller.
Attached is a file of someone's tests of 30-30 factory loads in several lever actions, couple of bolt actions, and a dropping block. I found my Marlin 336 was most accurate with bullets at factory weights and velocities, probably due to the flexibility of a lever action. Bullets have been made for over a century in the 30-30. It is a well understood cartridge. Out to 200 yards, which is a long way in the wooded east, the 30-30 bullets will reliably expand without blowing up.
Pick what you like.
Attached is a file of someone's tests of 30-30 factory loads in several lever actions, couple of bolt actions, and a dropping block. I found my Marlin 336 was most accurate with bullets at factory weights and velocities, probably due to the flexibility of a lever action. Bullets have been made for over a century in the 30-30. It is a well understood cartridge. Out to 200 yards, which is a long way in the wooded east, the 30-30 bullets will reliably expand without blowing up.
Pick what you like.
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d2wing
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I forgot about my Saiga. It is actually pretty accurate for that type rifle. The 30-30 has an edge in power and accuracy but I have killed deer with each and within 100 yards they can't tell much difference. But I like the weight and handling of the Winchester 94 much better. As someone else said, the Ak, SKS type rifles do weight nearly as much as a Garand or at least a 7400. The 94 is short, light, nicely balanced and more powerful. But for in the woods the Saiga is ok too. But I like my Tikka so the others gather dust.
When I do use my Saiga I shoot commercial soft point bullets. There used to be steel case soft points too. Tula I think. FMJ are not legal or ethical in my state.
When I do use my Saiga I shoot commercial soft point bullets. There used to be steel case soft points too. Tula I think. FMJ are not legal or ethical in my state.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I can share this. I spent a few decades hunting deer in West Virginia actually around Webster Springs W. VA. I am pretty sure that the 30-30 Winchester cartridge is The W. VA. State Cartridge, really it is. It's an official thing. Personally I always used my lil' old Ruger 44 Carbine for W. VA. but most natives thrived on the 30-30 Winchester cartridge. During the early 90s when the SKS rifles poured into the US they were a hell of a deal for a 10 round autoloading rifle suitable for deer. I watched plenty of deer fall to the 7.62 X 39 cartridge in W. VA. including a dozen or so taken by my friend and hunting buddy. While the 30-30 Winchester offered a much wider range of bullets the 7.62 X 39 did just fine. Both cartridges are effective on deer sized game at 200 yards and I never got a shot at 100 yards where we hunted. Anyone who has unsatiable curiosity can just refer to the ballistics on each cartridge and I agree this topic has been beaten to death. Anyone wanting to compare the two cartridges need only refer to the ballistic tables out there.
Ron