7.62x25 Tokarev is obviously a good handgun round...Why isn't it more popular?

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hopelessjoe

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The Tokarev can be had in hollow point. It can be loaded with smaller bullets in a sabot. It is very powerful. It would work well in a modern double (or single, if that is your ''thing'') stack pistol.

Yet, there are no modern pistols available on the American market.

Why?

Even the Chinese military continues to make guns for this round.

Why isn't the Tokarev getting it's due here?
 
Up until the fairly recent influx of great quantities of CZ52s, there wasn't much around here that fired the round and commercial ammo companies avoided the cartridge. In addition, I think many American shooters fear over-penetration and prefer larger, heavier pistol rounds.
 
How Do You Define "Obviously"?

There is a saying in science that fact is the greatest enemy of theory. While there is a significant share of the firearm-purchasing market that will spend money on the basis of theory (particularly if that theory supports a prior opinion), others prefer some some of record of real-life performance in the choice of life-saving equipment.

Many decades ago, W.E. Faribairn and E.A. Sykes published a little book, Shooting To Live with the One-hand Gun. Aside from the continuum of point shooting they present, based on their observations of 666 actual gunfights, one of the more intriguing chapters deals with "stopping power." Essentially, they state that they had initially expected the best results from large, slow-moving, soft lead bullets. In fact, they saw very inconsistent results, with a few surprising successes with small-caliber, high-velocity jacketed bullets fired from Mauser pistols. However, in the ensuing decades there has not been any significant body of experience demonstrating that a small-caliber, high-velocity handgun bullet, hollowpoint or otherwise, performs better than a medium- or large-caliber hollowpoint, albeit at lower velocity.

We get the most documentation of bullet preformance from officer-involved shootings. With street-proven performance from many medium- and large-caliber rounds, it's unlikely that police agencies will volunteer their officers as guinea pigs with smaller calibers. While Ruger has just introduced the ".327 Magnum" as a defensive cartridge, I doubt that it will produce enough real-life data to substantiate the claim that a small-caliber, high-velocity handgun round is "obviously" a good handgun round for self-defense. Barring such a body of knowledge, I find it hard to believe that it would be finacially worthwhile to develop modern pistols in chamberings such as the the 7.62x25mm.
 
I too would like a modern semi chambered for this round. Also, I would like to have an AK using the gas system in this caliber.
 
Marlin Camp Carbine?

Try the U.S. .30 cal. M-1 Carbine.

It will move the same caliber & weight bullet 200 FPS faster.

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rcmodel
 
I just fired my new (old) T-33 for the first time today. What a fun gun and enjoyable round to shoot! I was expecting recoil and muzzle blast after all I've read about the 7.62x25 but instead it is a very pleasant round to shoot.
 
I think the 7.62x25 has faded away because it was used in only a few specific guns like the Tokarev TT-33 pistol and PPSh submachine guns from WWII. The Russians then moved on to the Makarov and the AK. The Russians weren't interested in the 7.62x25 any more and the West was adopting the 9mm.
 
rcmodel

You're correct, but that's 200FPS for the added bulk and weight of a rifle vs. a pistol.
 
Bottom line--it is a light weight .25 caliber projectile launched by a pistol-length barrel. With all of the limitations inherent therein.

It's not doing any damage to the 9mm/38/357/40/45 market. It is a specialty round that appeals to a small segment of the shooting poulation.

If it offered a legitimate size or power advantage, people would flock to it.
 
Bottom line--it is a light weight .25 caliber projectile launched by a pistol-length barrel. With all of the limitations inherent therein.

It's not doing any damage to the 9mm/38/357/40/45 market. It is a specialty round that appeals to a small segment of the shooting poulation.

If it offered a legitimate size or power advantage, people would flock to it.

Yea what he said...plus its already easily beaten by the 9mm or something similar you can get in your favorite pistol already. WHY BOTHER?
 
ya used to be able to get a 1911 conversion for the 7.62x25, I have no idea who made them but I have one and have seen 7 others, mine uses a Stainless Barsto barrel and is on a non marked Caspian Slide, the mag follower angles the cartridges up at a lil sharper angle in the mag then the feed lips level off the round to be chambered next uses a full length GR that uses one spring inside and one outside, I put the upper on a 9 mm lower, very reliable
 
orionengnr said:
Bottom line--it is a light weight .25 caliber projectile launched by a pistol-length barrel. With all of the limitations inherent therein.
Err... When did 7.62mm become .25 caliber? It's .30 caliber.
 
If it offered a legitimate size or power advantage, people would flock to it.
Like they did with .38 Super. Or .41 Magnum. Or .44 Special. All these cartridges still exist, but don't have too much market share. Ballistic goodness does not necessarily make for popularity.

Personally, I'd love to see a doublestack in that caliber. Something along the lines of a CZ 75. Maybe we could convince Taurus to do the deed?
 
to me the real niche for this round is the "PDW"
It's firing a heavier bullet than the 5.7 and similar rounds, and it does seem to have the necessary armor penetrating ability. A small light modern subgun firing the 7.62 tokarev seems like it could do the same job as the p90 or mp7, only better.
 
Frankly, I'd like to see more adoption of soviet calibers. Do you know how badly I want a Glock in 9x18?

The ideal candidate for building more guns in this caliber is Norinco, but there's a segment of the American (and THR population) that refuses to buy anything remotely "communist". CZ, being familiar with the caliber however, could probably be persuaded with letters to make limited runs of guns in that caliber.
 
Prince Yamato said:
The ideal candidate for building more guns in this caliber is Norinco, but there's a segment of the American (and THR population) that refuses to buy anything remotely "communist".
Not only that, but there are some import restrictions on them. IIRC, that's why we only see Norinco shotguns any more.
 
I love Tokarevs.
I collect ones from different countries.
I hand load for them.
I have one of the few copies of
A collector's guide to Tokarev pistols (Unknown Binding)
by John Remling (Author)
that I am aware of.

http://www.collectorfirearms.org/website Images/Books & Manuals/bk-69.htm

How can I have more of a Tokarev experience?
I put a .308 bull barrel on a Tokarev, and chambered for 30 Mauser.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=30127

I have converted a Tokarev or two to 9x23mm
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=72023&highlight=9x23mm

I have thought about making a single shot .223 Tokarev.
I have thought of making my own Tokarev grips, but when I carry one, it is without grips.
 
err, err, err, err.............it IS............IS...........IS: .30 cal....ie: 7.62=.30..........where'd the .25 come from?????????
 
looking at it's wikipedia page
the diameter of the bullet is .309 inches
the overall length is 1.35 inches
it develops between 288 and 360 ft-pounds of energy

that means it is in the same power class energy wise as 9mm
and it's a bit longer than .45 ACP, but many gun's that can chamber that should be able to take the 7.62x25

I was actually surprised to see some 5.7 loadings beat it in terms of energy, I know that round has a poor reputation in terms of performance. but then again the energy can only tell you so much. Plus that was out of a ten inch barrel. I bet the tokarev would benefit a lot from a longer barrel.
 
PTK said:
rcmodel
You're correct, but that's 200FPS for the added bulk and weight of a rifle vs. a pistol.
But, two people had already ask for a Camp 9 carbine, and an AK-47 in 7.62x25.
Now, someone else wants an AR-15 in that caliber!

At least three people were not talking about 7.62x25 pistols!


err, err, err, err.............it IS............IS...........IS: .30 cal....ie: 7.62=.30..........where'd the .25 come from?????????
7.62mm is the caliber of the bullet.
25mm is the case length.

Same as all other metric calibers like 7.62x39, 7.62x53R, 9x19MM NATO, etc.

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rcmodel
 
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