7.62X25 vs. 7.63 mauser

[tark]

Here we go again....the myth that Tokarev ammo is too hot to shoot in broomhandles.

In the latest issue of Military Surplus Dr. Will Dabbs wrote an article on C-96s in which he repeats tired old myth once again, probably because hes been reading it for years so it must be true....right?

For the record, once and for all. here are the ballistics of the two rounds as they were loaded in WWII.

7x62X25 -------- 1390 FPS out of a Tokarev, about 150 more out of a subgun.
7.63 MAUSER---1575 FPS out of a broomhandle,

My source is SMALL ARMS of the WORLD, by Smith and Smith

Which one looks hotter to you???? EH???? A C-96 in good shape can shoot Tokarev ammo all day long. Mine has been doing that for years, over four thousand rounds worth.

 

[barnbwt]

A broom's a lot longer barrel than a Tokarev, right? In my experience I found Mauser to be hotter, but it could easily be due to that gun's horrible ergonomics. They're still about as similar as 300 Whisper & 300 Blackout.

 

[barnbwt]

Wiki says it's 86gr at 1450fps (either 99mm or 140mm barrel pistol barrel, let's say the shorter one) vs 85gr at 1650fps (120mm barrel for the 7.62x25 data)

 

[entropy]

There's a lot of hot surplus out there, Particularly Czech and Yugo (and IIRC Romanian) 7.62x25 made for SMG's that is on the hot side for shooting out of Tokarevs. This surplus was made post WW-II for PPSh and PPS43 SMG given to Warsaw Pact countries after WW-II. The WW-II ammo might be OK in a C-96, but the post war SMG stuff is probably not a good idea. I've shot some in a Tok, it's noticeably hotter.

 

[kozak6]

Oh, I don't know.

If I spent a lot of money on an antique luxury pistol, and particularly one well known for its fragile and unforgiving nature, I'd probably want to baby it a little.

 

[tark]

What gave you the Idea that broomhandles are fragile?. They are complicated but they most certainly are not fragile. As I have stated many times, they were chambered for a round that made a 38 Super look puny. The 9X25 Export Mauser round. Go look THAT one up in Wiki.

There is no such thing as hot loaded subgun ammo in 7.62X25. It does not exist. the Czech and Yugo is loaded to the same pressures as the other Warsaw Pact Nations.. The Russians would not have allowed otherwise. If it had a higher velocity than the others it was because of better propellant

The C-96 has a 5 1/2" barrel. The Tokarev, an inch shorter. That extra inch is not going to account for the extra 185 FPS as loaded in WWII.

Today, thanks to improved propellants, the 7.62X25 is pushing that 85 gr bullet at over 1600 FPS. And my Mauser loves the stuff.

 

[jhb]

There's a lot of hot surplus out there, Particularly Czech and Yugo (and IIRC Romanian) 7.62x25 made for SMG's that is on the hot side for shooting out of Tokarevs. This surplus was made post WW-II for PPSh and PPS43 SMG given to Warsaw Pact countries after WW-II. The WW-II ammo might be OK in a C-96, but the post war SMG stuff is probably not a good idea. I've shot some in a Tok, it's noticeably hotter.

this is a myth that has been debunked many times years ago. the tok can handle anything those subs can. also been proven many times. no point in beating this dead horse again.


never owned a broomhandle have no idea how tough they are or arent. seem tough enough but what do i know....

the bad part of forums is folks come for knowledge and get as much misinformation as they get real information. course hard to tell the difference if ya dont know.

 

[entropy]

I didn't mean the Tokarevs couldn't structurally handle it, I meant it is rather hot, that is , not fun, to shoot. Like a .38+P from a 14 oz. snubby not fun.....

My information is from actual use.

 

[tark]

My info comes from actual experience. And from a member of this forum who specializes in collecting Tokarev and Mauser ammo. When the Russians stole the round from the Germans, did not try to up the velocity, there was simply no reason to. As it turned out, as loaded during the War, their loading was considerably weaker that the German load. In recent years the velocity of the 7.62X25 has increased dramatically, due to advances in powder technology I suppose.

US companies have always loaded the 7.63 Mauser to around 1400 FPS. Why the weak load? Who knows. The Europeans have loaded the 7.63 to nearer the German WWII load. I have some recent PPU and Fiocchi 7.63 ammo that is pushing 1600 FPS. It looks identical to their ammo in &.62X25, except for the headstamp. I suspect it IS the same stuff. In my Mauser, there is no difference in recoil, muzzle flash, or most importantly, how far it throws the empties. That may sound unscientific.....but not so unscientific as you might think. The hotter the load, the further an automatic pistol will throw the empties. Regardless of how "unscientific" that might be, it is an absolute truth. At least in MY experience.

 

[RX-79G]

What gave you the Idea that broomhandles are fragile?

The aren't fragile overall, but the takedown latch is a weak link that can really hurt a person if it fails or wears to the point of slipping. Unlike other takedown systems, the latch receives recoil forces directly.

The standard way of testing the integrity of an C96 is to fire it with the sight line well away from your face or body.