Tokarev ammo in Mauser?

[DutchmanDick]

I have an early post-war Mauser "broomhandle" ("bolo" version). While I have been able to find some Serb-made 7.63 Mauser ammo for a good price, it was a limited offer (went ahead and bought 100 rounds). However, I noticed that Winchester now makes 7.62X25 Tokarev ammo. Now, I have heard that Tokarev ammo is a bit hotter than the Mauser round, and that Czech ammo (meant for the CZ-52 and subguns) is REALLY hot. But I also know that US-made ammo that could be used in older-type guns tends to be under-loaded (e.g., .45-70 is mostly kept to Trapdoor Springfield levels, 7.92X57 Mauser rifle ammo is kept to about .32 Winchester Special levels in case someone has an old "I"-bore (.318) Commission Rifle, etc.). I'm wondering if, since the bullet and case is identical between the Tokarev round and the Mauser round, the Winchester stuff might also be loaded to Mauser-safe pressures? Anybody have any ideas?

 

[jonnyc]

NEVER shoot Tokarev ammo in an old Mauser pistol. And while Winchester is an American company, a closer look at the box will tell you it is made by S&B, Czech Rep. Probably lots hotter than you'd expect.

 

[GRIZ22]

Good reasoning on your part, call Winchester and ask to talk to someone in Customer Service regarding pressure. Don't expect them to have the answer off the top of their head. Also look up the SAAMI max pressure for these cartridges, if they have one.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Tokarev ammo is hotter than Mauser ammo. Dangerously so in your case. In addition all the research I've done so far (after buying a CZ-52) seems to indicate that actual Czech or Bulgarian manufactured ammo is on the hot side even for Tokarev loading.

I've used the Winchester as well. It's hot. Not as hot as a Czech load but comparable to Bulgarian surplus.

Quick summary here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25

Bottom line, I would -not- recommend using any Tokarev ammo into a Mauser regardless of who manufactures it.

 

[Onmilo]

7.62X25 and 7.63 Mauser are all but identical in standard loadings.
Czech 7.62X25 military ammunition is indeed a much more powerful loading and not intended for use in Tokarev or Mauser C-96 pistols.

Sellier and Bellot brass case commercial loadings of the 7.62X25 are loaded at the top of the velocity and pressure levels for the 7.62/7.63 but are still safe if the weapon they are used in is in good condition.

The belief that 7.62X25 and 7.63 Mauser could not be used interchangeably in either weapon probably started with the STEEL CASE versions of the 7.62X25 such as Chinese military ammunition and the high power, high pressure Czech 7.62X25 and Carbine loadings of the 7.63 Mauser.
There are subtle case variations between 7.62X25 and 7.63 Mauser mainly due to manufacturing differences and not some nefarious undertaking and these variations can cause feed issues when attempting to use 7.62 steel case ammunition in the slightly different 7.63 Mauser chamber.
Probably the same would be true of 7.63 Mauser steel case ammunition but I have not ever seen or had the opportunity to test fire any of this type of loading.

Brass case ammunition 7.63 Mauser and 7.62 Tokarev will upset and seal in the chamber of either weapon and the cartridges will interchange with no signs of excess pressure or out of battery discharge.
I won't recommend this practice if you intend to reload because it will play hell with the usefull life of the cartridge case as well as making it a real challenge to resize the cases but both will still feed, chamber, and safely fire in either caliber, interchangeably.

Remember the Russians still had oodles of C-96 Mauser pistols on hand when the Tokarev became a military standard.
Matter of fact, they were so impressed with the performance of the Mauser cartridge they decided to copy it with a slightly different case dimension to avoid royalty payments to Mauser.
By maintaining interchangeability they could continue to use both weapons without relying on ammunition procured from German firms to feed the 7.63 Mauser C-96 pistols on hand.

 

[DutchmanDick]

Seems like the Chinese did likewise, once the Commies took over. My Mauser was a Chinese-imported gun (made by Mauser though - NOT an indigenous copy, which I wouldn't dare shoot!) that was "rode hard and put away wet" - bad bore, soft springs, chipped bolt stop. However, there is no peening of the slot in the barrel extension that the bolt stop goes into, the springs will be replaced by all new Wolff springs, the barrel will be re-lined by Redman's Rifling (they include the chamber in the re-line job, and do it to SAAMI minimum specifications), and I have a brand new bolt stop on backorder from SARCO. The gun WILL NOT BE FIRED until the refurbishing is done, so it will be able to handle any ammo that would normally be safe to use in a C96.