tcoz
Member
Just saw 880 rounds for $180! At this rate, a Mosin is gonna wind up in my safe before long.
7.62x54r ammo price
- Thread starter tcoz
- Start date
- Status
ColtPythonElite
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 10,477
I agree. 20 cents a pop is some pretty cheap rifle shooting.
Swampman
Old Fart
I like 'em too, although I consider the M44 considerably more versatile.
It's just as good as an M38 when used as a club, flamethrower or even firewood; but in addition, its got that nifty "spear" feature!
I haven't bought any surplus "54R in close to a decade.
I've got a good stash of the Czech light ball put away, but for most of my shooting (particularly gas guns), I've gone to handloads.
It's not too bad cleaning up a MN after shooting corrosive ammunition.
My PSL is a lot bigger pain in the rear.
I guess I've just gotten lazy in my old age.
if your going to do it you had better hit it. surplus ammo is disappearing fast.
8mm used to be that way. wish I had bought a few more rounds.
like 10x as much. I could sell 1/4 of what I bought and come out even. hint.
BCRider
Member
The problem with the cheap milsurp stuff is that some of the ammo is horribly inconsistent. And that leads to things like 10 inch groups at 100 yards with some fliers that don't even hit an 11x17 paper target. I know because I bought a SPAM can that shoots like this.
With no changes at all other than a switch to Prvi Partizan loads I was instantly getting 3'ish inch groups despite my "old guy eyeballs" acting like a built in handicap.
So for me the magic of cheap milsurp ammo is not so shiny as it once was.
With no changes at all other than a switch to Prvi Partizan loads I was instantly getting 3'ish inch groups despite my "old guy eyeballs" acting like a built in handicap.
So for me the magic of cheap milsurp ammo is not so shiny as it once was.
Swampman
Old Fart
I like Prvi ammunition (I LOVE their brass) but the old 1965 and '67 dated Czech "BXN" steel cased ammo that I have is actually more accurate in my PSL than the Prvi 150 grain soft point factory ammunition.
On the other hand, the best group I've ever shot using factory ammunition through any of my K-31's was shot with Prvi 174 grain SP rather than Swiss made GP11, which is considered by many shooters to be the most accurate "general issue" surplus ammo ever sold.
I have done the same thing, PSL and SVT get my own loads, the bolt guns get surplus. That being said the bolt guns do shoot much better if I run the hand loads in them.I like 'em too, although I consider the M44 considerably more versatile.
It's just as good as an M38 when used as a club, flamethrower or even firewood; but in addition, its got that nifty "spear" feature!
I haven't bought any surplus "54R in close to a decade.
I've got a good stash of the Czech light ball put away, but for most of my shooting (particularly gas guns), I've gone to handloads.
It's not too bad cleaning up a MN after shooting corrosive ammunition.
My PSL is a lot bigger pain in the rear.
I guess I've just gotten lazy in my old age.
BCRider
Member
Swampman, I'm not surprised at your findings. It just serves to indicate what a gamble milsurp ammo can be. You get a great batch and I get a SPAM can of garbage noise makers.
The trick is that unless the buyer pokes around to find out what maker and year of production is good stuff there's just no way of knowing which is good and which will be "minute of hillside".
All of which is why I picked up brass (Prvi) and bullets and plan on making my own very soon. And once fired each batch will be dedicated to one rifle and only neck sized from then on.
The trick is that unless the buyer pokes around to find out what maker and year of production is good stuff there's just no way of knowing which is good and which will be "minute of hillside".
All of which is why I picked up brass (Prvi) and bullets and plan on making my own very soon. And once fired each batch will be dedicated to one rifle and only neck sized from then on.
MilsurpShooter
Member
Get it while you can. It'll probably last longer then the other calibers due to the length of service of the round though. I mean 12 years ago I remember picking up a bunch of Ecuadorian 8mm mauser. 1,100 rounds for $112 to my door (Worst ammo I've ever shot but still fun to plink with)
If you look around and get the 880 in spam tins with the wood shipping crate, that stuff will last as long as you need it too probably.
If you look around and get the 880 in spam tins with the wood shipping crate, that stuff will last as long as you need it too probably.
Swampman
Old Fart
Sometimes even that's not enough.
I'd purchased several cases of 1970's dated Yugoslavian M-67 over the years and never had a problem with any of it. When supplies started drying up a couple years ago I decided to order a couple more cases.
One of the cases was normal looking, as was the ammo inside, when I fired it there were no problems.
The other case had cracks in the wood, when I inspected the zinc liner, I noticed cracks and even a couple of small pieces missing.
When I pulled the wire to open the can, it started breaking up like a cracker as the wire pulled through it rather than tearing smoothly like they usually do. If you look at the attached pic you can see how the edge looks almost like a sawblade.
When I inspected the ammo, the cases were much darker than normal, I called the supplier and returned it for a different case.
I don't know what happened to the "bad" case during it's storage life, but my best guess is exposure to ammonia embrittled and destroyed the zinc.
Either that, or Tito was running a nuke program nobody knew about and that ammo was from the guardhouse.
I'd hate to think what it did to the zinc in the cartridge cases, but I sure didn't want to experiment with my rifle, my face and 48,000 psi!
Attachments
justin22885
member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 2,102
the ammo is pretty inaccurate, designed for machine guns, its really not suitable for semi automatics or bolt actions.. i almost got into buying a few cans of the stuff, but realized it was more of a waste of money than anything else and wasnt worth the headache of finding quality 7.62x54R rifles
Comrade Mike
Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Messages
- 997
T
This is absolutely false on all three counts. Standard copper washed steel core 147 grain 7.62x54r was not purpose designed as a machine gun round. It is absolutely suitable for use in bolt actions and semi autos alike. It also shoots fine for the bulk ammunition it is. Out of my M39 or my more accurate 91/30's it's no worse than m855 out of a bone stock open sights AR-15. It's not the best ammo in the world, given, but you can't beat Centerfire rifle practice for 20 cents a round. If you can't hit what you're shooting at with surplus x54r you have bigger problems than the ammunition.
Please stop spreading information that has no basis in fact.
This is absolutely false on all three counts. Standard copper washed steel core 147 grain 7.62x54r was not purpose designed as a machine gun round. It is absolutely suitable for use in bolt actions and semi autos alike. It also shoots fine for the bulk ammunition it is. Out of my M39 or my more accurate 91/30's it's no worse than m855 out of a bone stock open sights AR-15. It's not the best ammo in the world, given, but you can't beat Centerfire rifle practice for 20 cents a round. If you can't hit what you're shooting at with surplus x54r you have bigger problems than the ammunition.
Please stop spreading information that has no basis in fact.
Swampman
Old Fart
Sorry, but your post as written makes no sense.
What do you mean by, "the ammo" in your statement that: "the ammo is pretty inaccurate"?
Are you aware that the "quality 7.62x54R rifles", that you're apparently looking for were not fed a diet of Norma Match ammo and carefully prepared handloads during their service lives?
The 7.62x54R was first issued in 1891along with the Mosin Nagant rifle, to the best of my knowledge they didn't acquire any machine guns until 1899.
Why would they design a cartridge for a class of weapons that they didn't even have at the time?
Is it your belief that every country that ever issued 7.62x54R rifles forgot to make ammunition for them?
Are you saying that the 500+ Russians killed in less than 100 days by Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä were all just lucky (or unlucky depending on your point of view) accidents?
7.62x54r inaccurate in a semi auto? Iraqveteran8888 seems to have no problems hitting his target at 300y....mag after mag. Fast forward to 7:50
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vrL5-S8ssT4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vrL5-S8ssT4
justin22885
member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 2,102
i have an x54R rifle, i know the factory ammo, the surplus mlitary ammo and how my own personal handloads function through it, the surplus ammo is certainly not on par with even cheap factory stuff, it is pretty inconsistent..
the ammo in question is the cheap surplus you get almost 1,000 rounds for just under $200.. this is not match grade stuff, over the last 50 years there have really only been two types of weapons to use 7.62X54R ammo, the LMGs like the PK/PKT/PKM, the UK59 and other eastern european LMGs.. the other 7.62x54R rifles in service would be like the dragunov, PSL, etc.. however the ammunition the dragunov used was 7N1 ammo, later the 7N14 cartridge.. 7N1 ammunition is over $300 for a 440 round can so the OP is definitely not getting that stuff for the price mentioned, so the ammo he's getting was designed to be used in LMGs, high volume, low cost, they didnt put much effort into consistency into the ammo, nor did they need to
on the surplus market you can get a few different rounds for about the same price, some russian, some bulgarian, i believe some is romanian surplus, but the fact is all this stuff was designed primarily for LMG use.. im sure some of it is passable for accuracy but in my experience if youre buying this stuff, i wouldnt expect more than 4MOA out of a mosin
Swampman
Old Fart
Oh THAT stuff, why didn't you specify that in your previous post?
Everyone already knows that year, country, factory and headstamp are substandard.
However the stuff that was available for 73 bucks a case on an unspecified website 13 years ago was excellent!
Ask anyone, they'll tell you the same.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were a member of such an exclusive club and therefore competent to pass judgement on all military 7.62x54R ammunition ever manufactured.
So either you've tested surplus military 7.62x54R ammunition from every country, manufacturer, ammo type, year of production and lot number ever imported into the US, or you think "surplus" is a factory in some third world hellhole where they cut the powder with cow dung to lower production costs...
You DO know that all the surplus ammunition ever sold was made in "factories", right?
Do you really think Barnaul, Sellier & Bellot, Privi and Igman etc, RAISED their QC standards when they entered a "price vs cost of production" market driven economy?
Then why did they keep packing regular ball ammunition into 20 round boxes or those Godawful string tied bundles well into the 80's?
Maybe I'm just lazy, but I think removing the string/paper/box, loading the ammo into MG belts and then putting the belts into ammo cans so it'll feed properly, all while charging through the Fulda Gap in a T-72 under heavy American antitank missile and artllery fire seems too "busy" to me.
If the ammo was meant for machine guns, why didn't they pack It already belted up in cans and ready to hang onto their MG's?
Swampman
Old Fart
I got a bunch of 1944 dated Turk ammo back when Wideners was selling it for $3.50 per 70 round bandolier. It was actually fairly accurate and I shot quite a bit of it. Then for some reason I decided to run some over a chronograph and discovered that it was going a little over 2900 feet per second!
I started thinking what the pressure was with that old flake powder in the 60+ year old cases and did like you, pulled the rest of it down for components.
I'm interested in learning more about your African brass.
Is it 7.62x54R?
I can't imagine who in Africa would have been making Boxer primed 7.62x54R back during WWII, unless South Africa was making it for the Russians.
Could you possibly post a picture of the headstamp?
I'd be very interested in seeing one of the box as well if you've still got it.
I know Canada and later the US loaded and shipped a lot of Boxer 7.62x54R ammo to Russia in WWII, but I've never heard anything about South Africa doing so.
Get a Finn mosin, I just got one and had a sub 1" group at 50 yards with Russian ammo.I get the same feeling after shooting mosins as after driving my 1980 Yugo .............. a lot left to be desired and very hard to keep between the lines
BCRider
Member
Paul, I suspect that has more to do with finding a good and consistent batch of ammo than the admittedly very nice Finn Mosin. The finest rifle around isn't going to shoot worth a whooey if the ammo is junk.
Come on that is funny chit ................. you guys are always so serious
I've had plenty of both mosins and finnish mosins ............. they bore me; Granted the finnish mosins are a bit better but still an ancient design, they're huge, heavy and awkward. Besides most have had the bejeezus shot out of 'em. Plus I would not waste my time, money or wear and tear shooting corrosive surplus ammo that doesn't shoot worth a darn. Life is too short for that. I prefer owning, shooting and enjoying Swiss K31's which is light years ahead of any mosin design and perhaps even less expensive to buy than a finnish mosin. And nearly all are in like new condition mechanically. Even a K31 that looks like it has been drug through the mud for 20 years will shoot circles around ANY mosin. I know, I know the first thing y'all are going to say is the K31 was never tested in combat ........... so what ....... I'm not in combat
I think it would be a mistake for anybody to think that a Swiss precision designed rifle like a K31 would do anything except shoot lights-out and even in a combat situation in arctic conditions. And the truth is there isn't a person on this forum that is using any of these old surplus rifles for their intended purpose. So I call BS on the guy who says he shoots MOA with a mosin using surplus ammo.
Unless MOA means dinner plate size patterns. 
OP
OP
tcoz
Member
So I call BS on the guy who says he shoots MOA with a mosin using surplus ammo.
Are you saying that it's tough to shoot tight groups with surplus ammo in general or in a Mosin with surplus ammo? I'm brand new to the milsurp rifle game having just shot my M1 for the first time a few days ago. I used Greek HXP and was really satisfied with the results. I had kinda expected it to be all over the place. Left target is 25 yds mechanical zero. Right target is 50 yds after making a single sight adjustment. The point I'm making has nothing to do with my shooting but rather with the accuracy of the gun & ammo, even with a first time shooter. I'm considering buying a Mosin so should I not expect the same relative accuracy? Please educate me. Thanks.
http://i60.tinypic.com/zy6a9.jpg
- Status
