7.92 Mauser ammo suggestions

[Robk13]

Hello all, it's been a while but while covid is raging I have been doing an inventory of my ammo stash.

I am in need of some 7.92x57 aka 8mm Mauser. No ppu, rem, or federal. I have a few options so far from hunting around the web:

1980s yugo for .88 shipped per rd.
1940 EK Greek for .59 shipped per rd.
Or
1950s Egyptian for .50 shipped per round.

I know the current S&B fmj is good ammo but is also expensive I have a few boxes for accurate shooting.

I am wondering if the yugo is actually worth such a premium over the Egyptian produced cartridges and if the Greek is still worth messing with given its age.

I have shot 20 rounds of Greek from this batch and it was okay no click booms but I also have the heavy firing pin spring from wolf on my Mausers.

I am looking for recommendations from those with more experience than I in this Cal. Thanks guys!!!

 

[troy fairweather]

Why no ppu, it's good ammo.

 

[Robk13]

It is too anemic for my liking at roughly 300-400fps below the S.s 7.92 German loading for heavy ball around 196-198 grains.

 

[troy fairweather]

It's more powerful then us ammo. It hits about dead on with the original sights, unless you want to shoot over your target. Did you try any ppu?

 

[Robk13]

I have 2 boxes but I'm yet to fire any. I heard alot of reports about it not shooting to point of aim on rifles that were zeroed for factory 7.92 ball. But then again....reports are not necessarily real world experience. I also just appreciate the full power recoil of full house Mauser loads.

 

[troy fairweather]

I would avoid any surplus ammo, just not worth the risk to save .2¢ a round. Plus full power loads risk cracking the stock and make long range trips not as fun.

 

[Robk13]

Sound advice that I will certainly keep in mind

 

[AMraider]

In my opinion the 70-80's Yugo are the best and most reliable surplus ammo. But at those prices I would try the PPU. They can be reloaded as well. The 50's Yugo can be hit or miss.

 

[Slamfire]

Gunpowder goes bad

Army Not Producing Enough Ammunition

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2003/May/Pages/Army_Not3866.aspx

Regardless of what the Army decides to do with its industrial base, the fundamental issue does not change: the Army needs to produce more war reserve ammunition, Naughton said. Time is running out, he said. “Most of the ammunition in the stockpile today was built 20 years ago during the Cold War buildup.” Most rounds are designed to have a shelf life of 20 years. “We are outside the envelope of the shelf life on 40 percent or more of our existing ammunition. The rest is rapidly approaching the end of its shelf life.”

Ammunition does not “go bad” overnight, after it reaches a certain age, but “once it’s over 20 years old, the reliability rapidly degrades,” said Naughton. Within a few years, it will become increasingly difficult to shoot it. “You can predict that you’ll lose 7-8 percent of the ammo after the 20-year mark.”*

To replace the obsolete rounds, the Army would have to produce 100,000 tons of war reserve ammunition a year for the next seven years. Past that point, it would need 50,000 tons to 60,000 tons a year to sustain the stockpile. That represents about “half the level of the Cold War buildup,” he said.

* I think what is meant, 7-8 percent per year after 20 years.

Sometimes the stuff goes bad very soon:





No one seems to have noticed this recall in their shooting magazines. Did the part where Accurate tells you the stuff will auto combust, burn your house down, make an impression, or did you just skip over that part? I will bet 99% of the readers just ignored that unwelcome information.



I am going to say the reason you are seeing old surplus ammunition is because the owning agency finally had to get the stuff out of their bunkers. The owner got rid of it, because it was becoming too dangerous to issue, and/or, too dangerous to store. And those buyers who did not know this, like Jack, they traded their cow for magic beans.

There is a reason old military surplus ammunition is cheap. Maybe buyers don't know the reason, but old ammunition is not "day old bread". The older the ammunition the greater the risk the gunpowder has deteriorated unacceptably and that will not only cause corrosion, it will cause pressure spikes which has, and will, blow up guns.

The best thing to do with old ammunition is to pass it up unless you got it for next to nothing. And if you happen to have old ammunition, pull a couple of bullets, examine for corrosion



and if there is none, shoot the stuff up, shoot it up soon, and save the brass for reloading.

I do know a machine gunner whose 8mm Mauser machine guns "blew the top cover twice" with 1950's Yugo ammunition. Once I explained why, it made sense to him. He was shooting pallets of the stuff and once in a while, one case would have burn rate instability that spiked the pressures, and ka boom!

This is a particularly bad example of a kaboom, and it occurred in the 1980's with WW2 ammunition. Lets see 1980-1940 equals 40 years. There is a lot more older ammunition on the market, but the laws of averages only apply to unlucky people, right?

 

[GBExpat]

Robk13,

I cannot speak to the pricing you have found, since the last batch of Yugo 7,92x57 that I bought (250rd cans of d/link belts for the MG53) only cost me a bit under 10¢/rd(delivered) 15-16 years ago (and yes, that was a GREAT price even back then ) but that Yugo 7,92 (headstamped 1982) and regular 900rd cases (1977) of the same (Yugo-designated M49. I still have a few non-MG sealed cases on-hand), IME, were/are excellent range/plinking ammo.

I have never fired any Greek EK or Egyptian 7,92x57 ammunition.

FWIW.

 

[Robk13]

After taking into consideration everyone's post here and following my own research I bought a few boxes of ppu and another S&B fmj.

In the future I do see that there will be a need to reload for this cartridge. So as others have justified I will be buying reloadable and modern ammunition!

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

 

[RON in PA]

How come you ain't reloading? Cheap surplus ammo is a thing of the past.

 

[792mauser]

The Yugoslavian ammo from the 80's is good.

The best bet is to reload.

 

[WelshShooter]

It is too anemic for my liking at roughly 300-400fps below the S.s 7.92 German loading for heavy ball around 196-198 grains.

PPU make two different types of ammo which I've also provided ballistic info for from PPU's website:

• 8mm Mauser
• 8x57 IS

The former ammunition is exactly as you say, it's low pressure with a muzzle velocity of 665m/s (or 2,180 fps in old money) with a 198gr FMJBT bullet. Case necks do not seal well in my Yugo M48 and I need to set my sight for 300m to get it on paper at 100m.

The 8x57 IS on the other hand is the real deal, full power loads. I get good case neck obturation and it's spot on at 100m when aiming low with sight on lowest setting. Muzzle velocity is 740m/s (or 2,430 fps) with a 198gr FMJBT bullet which is where it should be for this cartridge. My handloads using a 200gr bullet are around 2,400fps.

My understanding is that the 8mm Mauser ammo was made to be safely fired in the order Gew88 rifles which use the smaller .318" diameter bullet. However, whilst this ammo can be safely fired in a Gew98 you don't get the best performance.

I'd reccomend keeping your eye open for the 8x57 IS ammo if you can!

 

[boom boom]

@WelshShooter got it right. Prvi has two different stds. 8x57 in the US has been underloaded for years as those old GEW 88's are still out there with ignorant people trying to shoot .323 bullets through a .318 bore. So, the solution is to buy European ammo where those rifles were weeded out though proof test requirements years ago and it is much more difficult to sue someone based on one's own fooling and unknowledgeable actions.

@Slamfire also has it correct, firing old surplus ammo that is nearly 60-70 years old is likely to be problematic from a safety standpoint. Even aside from safety, it can be unpredictable in accuracy at best.

Think of it this way, you have a nice 98k rifle worth about $1000 dollars, why would you use cheap surplus ammo that could potentially make your 98k into parts and injure you to the extent that you have to go to the hospital emergency room and pay the deductible. If a modern Prvi, S&B, Norma, etc. commercial ammo does it, you have recourse via the law.

If Yugo or Egyptian surplus makes your rifle go kaboom, you get squat from them (sovereign countries are immune) and due to the nature of tort law here, you probably will not have recourse from the sellers of this stuff.

The solution, as others have said, is to reload for your rifle or buy the commercial stuff out there. How much is your rifle and personal safety worth? Figure that addition into the price on the cheap surplus and it doesn't look so good.

 

[Slamfire]

My understanding is that the 8mm Mauser ammo was made to be safely fired in the order Gew88 rifles which use the smaller .318" diameter bullet. However, whilst this ammo can be safely fired in a Gew98 you don't get the best performance.

This was not true of German military ammunition. The Germans removed service rifles with 0.318" diameter barrels and rebarreled them to the .323 caliber. And, I highly doubt any old military rifles submitted to a European Proof House would pass with the 0.318 barrel. As I understand Proof laws, anytime a firearm is transferred, it goes through the Proof House for mechanical and functional checks, along with firing a proof cartridge. I would be interested to know if Proof Houses have special cartridges and special stamps for 318 barrels, or whether they just reject them out of hand. One of the purposes of European Proof Houses is to weed out old, unsafe rifles, and having a 0.318" barrel floating around on a rifle highly likely to have a 0.323 cartridge chambered in the thing, could result in problems.

I remember when Turkish Mauser weapons came on the US market, which was in the middle 1970's. I saw antique 1888 Mausers at the range, the shooter was having misfires because he had not cleaned the grease out of the firing pin channel. What the Turks did with these weapons, I have no idea.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

In the US anyway ammunition is still manufactured and sold for 8mm Mauser rifles with .318 requirements.

https://shop.reedsammo.com/8x57-J-Bore-318_c361.htm

https://shop.reedsammo.com/8x57R-J-Bore-318-Rimmed_c360.htm


Some is manufactured in Europe by S&B at least in the "R" for rimmed variant.

https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/products/rifle-ammunition/rifle-ammunition-sp/detail/128/

I thought those two PPU listings shown above by @WelshShooter are both .323 diameter, with one the SAAMI compliant loading (lower velocity) and the other the CIP standard loading (higher velocity). At least that's what the PPU 2016 catalog shows, it's the last one I know of in English that details the two.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2_9_Sz7MCIswLcZjXHr3Ok

There aren't any 8mm .318 bullets listed by PPU. Neither offering by PPU is manufactured for use in rifles with .318 barrels. You might try it once but I'll bet there's no way to try it twice in a rifle with .318 barrel, at least with same rifle with same .318 barrel. I've heard the reason for the difference in SAAMI limits is due to people trying to fire ammo with .323 bullets in rifles with .318 bores, I guess someone calculated the SAAMI limit years ago based on trying this without fatal results???? I honestly don't know how that was determined but can't help but scratch my head at this.

All the PPU ammunition is manufactured in Europe - Serbia - whether made to SAAMI or CIP limits.

 

[BCR#1]

I have 50's Yugo, 80's Yugo and 80's Romanian. All go bang in my surplus Mausers, be in German, Yugo or Yugo/Syrian. I've never paid over $.30 for any of it either.

Bill

 

[Swampman]

...I highly doubt any old military rifles submitted to a European Proof House would pass with the 0.318 barrel. As I understand Proof laws, anytime a firearm is transferred, it goes through the Proof House for mechanical and functional checks, along with firing a proof cartridge. I would be interested to know if Proof Houses have special cartridges and special stamps for 318 barrels, or whether they just reject them out of hand. One of the purposes of European Proof Houses is to weed out old, unsafe rifles, and having a 0.318" barrel floating around on a rifle highly likely to have a 0.323 cartridge chambered in the thing, could result in problems...

Your doubt is misplaced.

CIP standards for 8x57 are much more sensible than SAAMI standards. Instead of one crappy standard that doesn't work very well in either .318" OR .323" bores, CIP lists two separate cartridges (Sorry the links below are to PDF's).

The 8x57 I uses .318" bullets and pressures of 3800 BAR (55,114 PSI).

The 8x57 IS uses .323" bullets loaded to pressures of 3900 BAR (56,564 PSI).

...I also just appreciate the full power recoil of full house Mauser loads.

If you wanna try some REAL "full house Mauser loads", here ya go...
https://axisarmsonline.com/product/turkish-8mm-mauser-70-round-bandoleer/

I may have missed it, but what model rifle are you shooting the 8mm in?

 

[BCR#1]

I stopped buying Turk ammo due to numerous click bangs because of improper storage.

Bill

 

[Daveboone]

The best way around 8x 57 ammo concerns is load your own. I have done so for forty years, and dad before me. Originally using 3031, now 748 with a 175 grain Sierra Game King sp., and hand loaded can (in the right rifle) take your performance to a whole new level. I get it if you are only getting a few boxes, but my 98 Oberndorf is my primary, and is very effective on white tails and moose.

 

[Snowdog]

I bought gobs of Yugo M75 ammunition years ago and it's both "pretty" and sure-fire. It also has a bit more recoil than the American 8x57* JSP stuff, so I'd imagine it's loaded closer to the 7.92x57JS* potential. This 8mm Mauser* fodder is said by many to be non-corrosive (it IS Berdan primed), but I clean it as if corrosive anyway. I don't know if it's still available as milsurp ammunition tends to dry up in a hurry, but if you find it for a decent price, it's a solid performer.

* Just like the 9x19, the 8mm Mauser goes by many different names but is all the same.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I’ve got enough surplus 8mm Mauser ammo, I could shoot 30 rounds a week for the next nine years.
I have Yugo, Turk, Romanian, and German, just to name a few. I even have some British 8mm Mauser ammo.
If you’re looking for full power 8mm ammo Turkish ammo is about the hottest. But you need to know what you are shooting. Most Turkish ammo with give you some pressure signs. I do not recommend shooting Turkish ammo in any rifle that the stock is not in excellent shape and the action is fitted properly. I have repaired many rifle stock’s that have been cracked from shooting Turkish ammo. Also Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo has about the hardest primers in the world.
Anyone shooting Turkish ammo, I recommend that you pull the bullets and reduce the powder charge. I’ve been doing this for years.
watch this video for info on Turkish 8mm.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=AunvMjcJPHY&usg=AOvVaw0jvRr-inSPRlY1UvouvgEg
When it comes to shooting surplus ammo, or any older ammo, it is important that you inspect the ammo. Whenever I open up a crate, or tin, I make sure that it clean and then I pull a few rounds to check the base of the bullet and the powder.
Don’t buy surplus 8mm ammo for more then 0.50 cents a round.

 

[Robk13]

I am going to be reloading in the very near future for 7.92x57.

As for that ppu 7.92x57 (the hotter stuff) it has proven illusive for me. I looked all over the web and was unable to find a single source for the more powerful loading.

I have heard conflicting stories about the Turk ammo before and had concerns about the the light ball firing to point of aim in my yugo mausers and k98 (much like I was the weaker loading from ppu).

Unfortunately this past weekend I spend my cash I had intended for reloading on another Mauser.... An m24/47 from samco with a bent bolt handle from an m48 and a k98 front band and strange stock with a second cross bolt installed....it's a strange beast but I love it, if anyone is interested I can post some pictures of it. It does seem to have a weak extraction problem and feed issues so far during my testing.

Can anyone positively confirm that a k98 extractor will function well on an intermediate Mauser action (yugo)? I don't want to possibly damage my k98 extractor by removing it and trying in the yugo.

Thanks to everyone for responding to this post it has been a very educational one to say the least!

 

[WelshShooter]

This was not true of German military ammunition. The Germans removed service rifles with 0.318" diameter barrels and rebarreled them to the .323 caliber. And, I highly doubt any old military rifles submitted to a European Proof House would pass with the 0.318 barrel. As I understand Proof laws, anytime a firearm is transferred, it goes through the Proof House for mechanical and functional checks, along with firing a proof cartridge. I would be interested to know if Proof Houses have special cartridges and special stamps for 318 barrels, or whether they just reject them out of hand. One of the purposes of European Proof Houses is to weed out old, unsafe rifles, and having a 0.318" barrel floating around on a rifle highly likely to have a 0.323 cartridge chambered in the thing, could result in problems.

A valid point and its exactly what happens here in the UK. Even if an older firearm makes its way into the UK it will be proofed against the cartridge the rifle is rated for. For example, my Finnish M24 was proofed for 7.62x54 which uses a slightly larger bullet (.311") than the designated 7.62x53 which the M24 used (.309"). I imagine this was likely done out of ignorance as "it's one of them Mosin-Nagants so must be 7.62x54". It passed the proof OK but I prefer to use standard 30cal bullets (.308") with this rifle which work perfectly well.

The question is what about the older Gew88 that made their way across the world prior to the 323 bores? A friend of mine has a commission Gew88 who handloads using lead bullets but I'd be interested to know what cartridge was used to proof the rifle and whether this rifle was rebarreled or not. Unfortunately, it might be a long time until I see him next as he is an older gentleman so not sure he will be rushing back to the shooting range given Corvid-19.