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7mm-'06?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ArmedBear, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Just a history/curiosity question.

    Was this ever tried, either by an ammo maker or a wildcatter?

    Or did the .270 come along early enough to head it off at the pass?

    And why has the .270 bullet remained by itself, in '06 brass, without a .308-based analogue?
     
  2. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Yes

    7mm Remington Express, aka .280 Remington.

    The .270-.308 is a good question; there have been wildcats, but nothing caught on.
     
  3. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Oh, duh.

    Forgot about the .280. Seems like those who have tried it, really like it, too.
     
  4. usmc1371

    usmc1371 Member

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    7mm-08 seems pretty popular so may be why no 270-08.
     
  5. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I like all of them but, the thought that keeps recurring in me is a 25-08. It would be a better performer than the 250-3000 Savage but still work in short actions. There have been a few variations but evidently none caught on. Maybe I need a full time job; oh damn; I remember now, I retired so I wouldn't have a full time job!!!!!
     
  6. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    The 30.06 case has given rise to the following now commercially loaded "wildcats":

    1. 25.06
    2. 270. Win
    3. 280 Rem
    4. 35 Whelen

    Did I miss any?
     
  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    There is a named wildcat of the .25-08, although I can't remember its name right now. Given the cult following of the .257 Roberts +P, the .25-08 ought to attract the same [enlightened] crowd.

    The .280 (and .280 Ackley) and 6.5-06 are some great but often overlooked cartridges.
     
  8. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Here are some names of wildcat cartridges with .277 / .308 win cases:

    1. .270/.308 Winchester (Huber)
    2. .270/.308 Winchester Improved (Ackley/Sorensen)

    Some 7mm-'06 Rounds (besides .280/7mm rem express):

    1. .280 Remington Improved (Ackley)
    2. .285 OKH, aka 7mm/06 OKH (O'Neil, Keith & Hopkins)


    That's all I can find.

    Zak, ".25-08"?
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Bear in mind that the .280 Rem is not an '06 necked straight down to 7mm. It has about .050" longer cartridge headspace to keep it from being crammed in a .270. Forming .280 from .30-06 would take some extra work to generate the new shoulder location.

    There was a .270x.300 Savage, the .270 Titus; but anybody doing it on a .308 case is pretty obscure.
     
  10. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Dr.THW,

    I was responding to MMCSRET
     
  11. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    The 270 Win. was never a wildcat. It was a original Winchester introduction. As far as a 270-308,why with the 7mm-308 available? we are talking a whopping .007 difference bullet diameter here.
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I wonder where they ever got the idea for the .270 in the first place. I have read that they got the idea from the European 7x64 but fudged the bullet diameter for some reason. The only other .270 I know of was the obscure 6.8mm Mauser that old China looked at but settled on standard 8x57.
     
  13. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    just go with a 260 remmy, and that will be very close to your 25.08, 257+, or any round close to that, even the 6.5 . 06. Or just stay with the tried and true 280, very good round.
     
  14. Runningman

    Runningman Member

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    Seems like I read somewhere the 270Win is based on the longer, necked down 30-03 case.

    To add to that list the 338 A Square was standardized by the SAAMI. WBY was selling rifles in it at one time.
     
  15. jester_s1

    jester_s1 Member

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    Anything you can imagine doing to a .30-06 case has been done. Most of them have been done several times. Neck it up or down, cut it, blow it out, change the shoulder, whatever. Quite a few commercial cartridges have come out of experimentation with the .30-06, and many more useful wildcats have also been made.

    To the OP- the .270 came out first and got the market. The .280 is a nearly ballistic equal intended to keep Remington from having to stamp ".270 Win" on their guns. It didn't catch on because there was no reason to switch from the tried and true.
     
  16. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    I never have read how Win decided on a .277 bullet. Maybe so it wouldn't be metric. This was 1923,after all.
     
  17. MMCSRET

    MMCSRET Member

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    I saw a Savage 99 chambered in 270 Savage (300 Savage necked down to 270) about 40 years ago in Western Montana where I grew up. It belonged to a rancher/packer who spent a lot of time in the saddle. He liked the 99 for a saddle gun better than the Winchesters and Marlins of the day and was very fond of .277.
     
  18. woof

    woof Member

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    Actually .277 "is" 7mm (.2.75+) while .257 is really 6.5 but we call them .25s. Yet we have become used to thinking 6.5 is .264 and 7mm is .284. So when Winchester came out with the .270 they were thinking 7mm. Why didn't they make it the same bullet size as 7x57? Dunno.

    We don't need another entry in the .308 family since we already have 6mm, 6.5, 7, 7.62, 8.5 and 9.
     
  19. JWF III

    JWF III Member

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    I'm pretty sure that A-Square is now loading the 6.5-06, though it may not have been standardized by SAAMI. That I don't know about.

    Wyman
     
  20. woof

    woof Member

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    Isn't the .220 Swift on a .30-06 case?
     
  21. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    No.
    .220 Swift is a distant descendant of the old 6mm Lee Navy.

    You have to watch the nomenclature. Some calibers go by bore diameter, some by groove, some by bullet. So sure, .277" is close to 7mm as a bullet or groove diameter. But a 7mm rifle has a 7mm bore diameter.
     
  22. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    The 220 swift is based on the 6mm Lee Navy. It is a unique "semi rimed case"
     
  23. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    AKElroy, yes, you missed the 338-06 A-square that's loaded by Weatherby, Nosler and of course A-Square.
    You can also buy 8mm-06 brass, not sure if they make loaded ammo.

    The 25-08 wildcat is the 25 Souper.

    NCsmitty
     
  24. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Oh, also, of the 2 most popular ".25-08" (based on .308 win) wildcats, both had off-the-wall names:

    1. .257 Durham Jet
    2. .25 Souper (not "super")

    Edit: NCsmitty beat me to part of it!
     
  25. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Member

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    The 7mm-06 went two different directions...

    One is known as the .280 Remington, seen on gun shop shelves here in the U.S.

    The other is known as the 7x64 Brenneke, but is mostly an overseas proposition.

    The latter is loaded to a higher chamber pressure than the former.

    If you get some 7x64 Brenneke brass, and compare it to .280 Remington, you'll see the difference. One obvious departure is the smaller flash hole diameter of the 7x64.

    I bought 1000 pieces of once-fired RWS 7x64 Brenneke brass from Huntington's in the late 1990s, to resize to 6.5-06 after doodling around with .280 Remington, .270 Winchester, and .25-06 Remington brass. I've been quite pleased with the results.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
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