7mm Mag and 300 Win Mag

[MachIVshooter]

The SAAMI max OAL for .300WM is exactly the same as for the .30-06. It was done that way on purpose.

See:

Also they both work out of a standard 06 lenght action, but some actions leave the .300 well short of the lands then loaded to magazine lenght

That pretty well limits you to 180's without seating past the start of the ogive if using a standard length action. Well, for the .300 to really shine, 180's are minimum. You might not consider it important, but from a guy who has run into this problem trying to squeeze 225 gr. Accubonds into a .350 Rem Mag 673 guide gun magazine, it sucks to have OAL limit your bullet selection and/or cause undesireable load configurations with ideal bullets.

.300 WM is a good round, but the OP seemed to be asking for an objective comparison. I gave him one.

 

[MCMXI]

7mm Rem Mag makes for a better long ranged rifle, in fact very few compete with it, hence the US Secret Service counter sniper teams use them.

Makes me wonder why the US Army choose the .300 Win Mag for the XM2010 and MSR projects and for the rebarreling of existing Rem 700s? It's not like the army was sitting on a huge stock pile of .300 WM ammunition as evidenced by the development of the 220gr SMK load.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Makes me wonder why the US Army choose the .300 Win Mag for the XM2010 and MSR projects and for the rebarreling of existing Rem 700s? It's not like the army was sitting on a huge stock pile of .300 WM ammunition as evidenced by the development of the 220gr SMK load.

Kind of a WAG, but the US army has gravitated toward .30 cal. small arms since 1894. It definitely follows.

 

[gamestalker]

7mm RM. I have a few and they will kill anything in North America with no problem.

 

[buttrap]

Easy answer there. 7mm they hunt deer and coyotes with a .300 elk and moose. The 7mm really is not much up from a 30-06 just burns more powder do do the same is all.

 

[LoonWulf]

On light game i think the 06 firing med frangible bullets may hit with more authority then the 7...atleast out to 200yds. The 7mm shoots much flater and with less drift.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

any comparison can be tainted by picking components. I hear all the time that a 7mm has a better bc then a .30 and it really isnt so unless your comparing two bullets the same weight or if like some here compare a 7mm match bullet to a 30 cal hunting bullet. take two bullets the same like a nos bt. then take and compare Real world velocitys for both. Lets take something popular like a 7mag shooting a 160 bt to a 300win shooting a 180 bt. Both have simular bcs and both will have simular velocitys. So in the real world theres going to be very little differnce in trajectory. But in my experince the 30 with its large heavier bullet will hit harder when the range is way out there like past 400 yards. Now i can substitute a 162 amax in there and change things but its not a hunting bullet. I can also load the 7mag up to dangerous pressures or back the 300 off to milder pressures to change things but that just isnt fair. bottom line is a 300 mag is more powerful then a 7mag just like a 338 mag is more powerful then a 300. What you have to decide is how much power you really need and where to stop. there are no majic bullets though. I chuckle as theres many guys lately that are just infatuated with the 6.5s. Bottom line is the same there. Sure a 140 6.5 bullet has a slight advantage to a 140 7mm bullet but the 7mag has the abiltiy to push a 150 grain bullet with simular bc as fast as a 264 will shoot a 140. Sorry guys but bigger is usually better. Sorry 6.5 or 7mm fans but there is no mytical majical bullet diameter that is better then another.

 

[Kachok]

Makes me wonder why the US Army choose the .300 Win Mag for the XM2010 and MSR projects and for the rebarreling of existing Rem 700s? It's not like the army was sitting on a huge stock pile of .300 WM ammunition as evidenced by the development of the 220gr SMK load.

The Army has always wanted 30 cals in anything larger then a basic assult rifle, no secret there. If you want to see the ballistic advantage of the 7mm that is easy you won't even need a ballistics calaulator for this one. 300 WM 210gr Burger VLD 2750fps max .631 BC vs 7mm RM 180gr Burger VLD 2950fps max .659 BC. 200fps faster with a higher BC projectile, that is a no brainer at any range. Now within normal hunting ranges (say within 300yd) the 300 is simply the more powerful rifle, more energy and larger caliber simply packs more killing potential, but out past 400yd call it a draw, 7mm retained energy vs .30 cal projectiles.

 

[MachIVshooter]

On light game i think the 06 firing med frangible bullets may hit with more authority then the 7

No one in his right mind hunts with frangible ammunition.

And no, the .30-06 doesn't hit with more "authority" at any range.

 

[nathan]

I guess i ll settle for 7 mm Rem Mag. I have enough share of .30 cal from .308 to .30 06 to Russian 54 R and 7.62 x 39. I would want something new if i go magnum level.

 

[helotaxi]

The Army has always wanted 30 cals in anything larger then a basic assult rifle, no secret there. If you want to see the ballistic advantage of the 7mm that is easy you won't even need a ballistics calaulator for this one. 300 WM 210gr Burger VLD 2750fps max .631 BC vs 7mm RM 180gr Burger VLD 2950fps max .659 BC. 200fps faster with a higher BC projectile, that is a no brainer at any range. Now within normal hunting ranges (say within 300yd) the 300 is simply the more powerful rifle, more energy and larger caliber simply packs more killing potential, but out past 400yd call it a draw, 7mm retained energy vs .30 cal projectiles.

Once they slow down enough, the .30cal projectile is an advantage only in-so-much that it is never smaller than .308". Given like bullets the range at which the 7mm bullet will expand reliably is increased as well because, in general, it retains velocity better.

To make an apples to apples comparison, you have to compare the same type of bullet (manufacturer and line) and similar sectional densities. The SD figure gives you the relative bullet weight for a given caliber. Bearing that in mind, take the Hornady Interbond series of bullets and compare the 139gn 7mm to the 165gn .308 (these are the only bullets from the same line that have a SD that is even close between the two calibers) each fired from their respective magnum. Hornady's load manual shows a very slight SD advantage to the .308 but a more significant BC advantage to the 7mm. Hornady lists the max velocity as 3200fps for each. Trajectories are very similar and both maintain 1000fpe out past 800yds. The difference is that the .300WM delivers 33% more recoil and burns 10gn more powder to get there. The differences in bullet energy at shorter ranges are significant on paper only. No animal shot will notice the difference.

 

[LoonWulf]

MachIV maybe i should have wrote fast expanding, instead of frangible, but my experiance with most of the plastic tips, and shots under 200 yds has left little in the way of whole bullets. And tho dead is dead the 6" exit wounds or completely removed shoulders from 165 balistics were a bit more impressive then the holes left by my 162s, or my old load oh 139s. More wastefull also.

 

[Skyshot]

Makes me wonder why the US Army choose the .300 Win Mag for the XM2010 and MSR projects and for the rebarreling of existing Rem 700s? It's not like the army was sitting on a huge stock pile of .300 WM ammunition as evidenced by the development of the 220gr SMK load.

It all goes back to Teddy Roosevelt, The Spanards shot the Americans butts of with the 7x57 Mauser. 7mm's are not in high regard with the military. And thats to bad.

 

[tundraotto]

the 300 Win Mag does what the 7mm Rem Mag does with heavier and bigger bullets...

 

[velvethunter]

...But for those who love the .30 cal in all things the 300 WM cant be beat. Its the big daddy dubbed as the 1000 yd gun. Old timer 30 06 is the 500 yd rifle

What planet is this true on, cause it surely isn't earth...

 

[wombat13]

There's a whole lot of bad gouge in this thread.

7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag will both fit in standard actions.

Some 7mm bullets have higher BCs than some 30 caliber bullets.

.30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag are all capable 1000 yard cartridges.

I recommend fact checking before posting on the internet. I'm sure that'll happen right after slow drivers get out of the left lane for good.

Love your post. Especially that last line.

I always understood that the .300WM and .338WM both fit in standard length actions and that magnum actions were required for .375H&H and others.

 

[Zak Smith]

.338, .300 (220gr), and 7mm RM/WSM

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     300     600     900    1200    1500    1800 | YARDS
338 300           0.77* 2750 >    0.00    3.70   15.76   37.96   72.53  121.92  187.88 | wind (inches)
338               0.675 2950 >    0.00    3.84   16.47   39.86   76.65  129.73  201.21 | wind (inches)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    3.94   16.92   41.06   79.13  134.15  208.12 | wind (inches)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    3.93   16.96   41.33   80.07  136.62  213.34 | wind (inches)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    3.84   16.51   40.19   77.72  132.50  207.06 | wind (inches)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    0.00    4.35   18.78   45.87   89.13  152.02  235.18 | wind (inches)

338 300           0.77* 2750 >    0.00    1.10    3.40    6.40   10.00   14.40   20.00 | drop (Qt mil)
338               0.675 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.10   13.30   18.80 | drop (Qt mil)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.20   13.60   19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.30    8.50   12.70   18.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.10    8.30   12.30   17.60 | drop (Qt mil)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    0.00    1.00    3.30    6.40   10.20   15.30   21.90 | drop (Qt mil)

338 300           0.77* 2750 >    2750    2428    2129    1852    1597    1377    1202 | velocity (fps)
338               0.675 2950 >    2950    2570    2221    1902    1614    1369    1180 | velocity (fps)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    2950    2561    2205    1880    1588    1342    1157 | velocity (fps)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    3100    2673    2284    1930    1613    1348    1151 | velocity (fps)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    3125    2702    2314    1962    1645    1377    1173 | velocity (fps)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    2850    2452    2089    1758    1465    1231    1073 | velocity (fps)

 

[viking499]

As nice as it would be to have another CZ, sounds like I will keep my 7mag.

 

[tundraotto]

.338, .300 (220gr), and 7mm RM/WSM

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     300     600     900    1200    1500    1800 | YARDS
338 300           0.77* 2750 >    0.00    3.70   15.76   37.96   72.53  121.92  187.88 | wind (inches)
338               0.675 2950 >    0.00    3.84   16.47   39.86   76.65  129.73  201.21 | wind (inches)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    3.94   16.92   41.06   79.13  134.15  208.12 | wind (inches)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    3.93   16.96   41.33   80.07  136.62  213.34 | wind (inches)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    3.84   16.51   40.19   77.72  132.50  207.06 | wind (inches)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    0.00    4.35   18.78   45.87   89.13  152.02  235.18 | wind (inches)

338 300           0.77* 2750 >    0.00    1.10    3.40    6.40   10.00   14.40   20.00 | drop (Qt mil)
338               0.675 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.10   13.30   18.80 | drop (Qt mil)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.20   13.60   19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.30    8.50   12.70   18.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.10    8.30   12.30   17.60 | drop (Qt mil)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    0.00    1.00    3.30    6.40   10.20   15.30   21.90 | drop (Qt mil)

338 300           0.77* 2750 >    2750    2428    2129    1852    1597    1377    1202 | velocity (fps)
338               0.675 2950 >    2950    2570    2221    1902    1614    1369    1180 | velocity (fps)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    2950    2561    2205    1880    1588    1342    1157 | velocity (fps)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    3100    2673    2284    1930    1613    1348    1151 | velocity (fps)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    3125    2702    2314    1962    1645    1377    1173 | velocity (fps)
300 220           0.63* 2850 >    2850    2452    2089    1758    1465    1231    1073 | velocity (fps)

VLD and AMAX data for the 7mm RM and just low BC bullets for the 338 and 300....how about the same with VLDs and AMAXs for the big boys.....

 

[Zak Smith]

VLD and AMAX data for the 7mm RM and just low BC bullets for the 338 and 300....how about the same with VLDs and AMAXs for the big boys.....

Incorrect.

The "300 220" is the 220gr SMK load that has been brought up in this thread by 1858 et al, Mk248 mod 1 if I remember correctly. The 208 AMAX has a similar BC value.

The "338 300" is the 300gr SMK. The "338" is a 250gr Lapua Scenar.

These are representative of the best loads (or very close to) for those cartridges, not counting boutique solid/monolithic bullets.

 

[Kachok]

308 cal 208gr A-max has a .648 BC while the 220gr SMK has a .629BC figure you can push either to between 2750-2800fps in a 300 Win, neither of which will hang with a 7mm RM pushing a .674BC 180gr VLD to just shy of 3,000 fps. For a .30 cal to run neck and neck with the big 7 you need to step up to the 300 ultra mag or 30-378 Wby both of which can push 220gr class bullets to 3k.
At ultra long range no 300 WM can keep up with the 7mm PERIOD, now blasting a large hog or elk at normal hunting ranges give me a 300 anyday.
Now the 338 Lapua with a 250gr Lapua Scenar at 3k will run with the 7mm thanks to it's .675BC, but that is too much gun for my likeing.

 

[tundraotto]

208 Amax can be run at 2900-2950fps from a 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel....28 grain heavier bullet at target compared to the 180VLD

 

[Zak Smith]

A friend of mine used to shoot the 208 AMAX's at 2900 fps from a 26" AI-AWM. If we believe the published BC, here it is in the mix

_Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0     300     600     900    1200    1500    1800 | YARDS
338 300SMK        0.77* 2750 >    0.00    3.70   15.76   37.96   72.53  121.92  187.88 | wind (inches)
338 250LAP        0.675 2950 >    0.00    3.84   16.47   39.86   76.65  129.73  201.21 | wind (inches)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    3.94   16.92   41.06   79.13  134.15  208.12 | wind (inches)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    3.93   16.96   41.33   80.07  136.62  213.34 | wind (inches)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    3.84   16.51   40.19   77.72  132.50  207.06 | wind (inches)
300 220SMK        0.63* 2850 >    0.00    4.35   18.78   45.87   89.13  152.02  235.18 | wind (inches)
300 208 AMAX      0.648 2900 >    0.00    4.11   17.69   43.01   83.05  140.86  217.99 | wind (inches)

338 300SMK        0.77* 2750 >    0.00    1.10    3.40    6.40   10.00   14.40   20.00 | drop (Qt mil)
338 250LAP        0.675 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.10   13.30   18.80 | drop (Qt mil)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    0.00    0.90    3.00    5.70    9.20   13.60   19.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.30    8.50   12.70   18.20 | drop (Qt mil)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    0.00    0.80    2.70    5.10    8.30   12.30   17.60 | drop (Qt mil)
300 220SMK        0.63* 2850 >    0.00    1.00    3.30    6.40   10.20   15.30   21.90 | drop (Qt mil)
300 208 AMAX      0.648 2900 >    0.00    0.90    3.20    6.00    9.60   14.30   20.30 | drop (Qt mil)

338 300SMK        0.77* 2750 >    2750    2428    2129    1852    1597    1377    1202 | velocity (fps)
338 250LAP        0.675 2950 >    2950    2570    2221    1902    1614    1369    1180 | velocity (fps)
7 180VLD          0.659 2950 >    2950    2561    2205    1880    1588    1342    1157 | velocity (fps)
7 168VLD          0.617 3100 >    3100    2673    2284    1930    1613    1348    1151 | velocity (fps)
7RM AMAX          0.625 3125 >    3125    2702    2314    1962    1645    1377    1173 | velocity (fps)
300 220SMK        0.63* 2850 >    2850    2452    2089    1758    1465    1231    1073 | velocity (fps)
300 208 AMAX      0.648 2900 >    2900    2509    2151    1826    1537    1298    1125 | velocity (fps)

 

[Kachok]

208 Amax can be run at 2900-2950fps from a 300 Win Mag with a 24" barrel....28 grain heavier bullet at target compared to the 180VLD

You have any published load data for that? Seems a bit excessive for standard pressure out of a 24". Even if that is the case the 7mm still holds a respectable edge.

 

[LoonWulf]

I shot some 208s, still have most of them for that matter. I wasnt able to get anywhere near 2900 loaded to mag length in my savage, recoil was also severe enough i gave up on them. If loaded out in a magnum action, i think you might get that kinda velocity with hot loads. On a note i came up just shy of 2600 loaded long in my 06, i havent been able to shoot those at anything over 300ish tho.