80% Lower

[Gordon]

Or completely make your own which is about 8 or 10 levels of difficulty higher... and legitimately requires a mill or a furnace capable of melting aluminum so that it can be poured into a mould to make a casting.

I actually did that in San Jose Calif. about 10 years ago.As I remember you went in and gave the guy cash , about $80 and pushed a button on a CNC machine. Seems there was briefly a loop hole on this, the guy did not keep records and quite a few people went and did it when we heard about it. It lasted about 6 months as I remember until the Govt. closed him down. Of course we all cut them up later, I am not kidding , me and three of my friends who did that got to drinking one night and got paranoid and I used my big bench friction cut off tool and sawed them into three.

 

[Robert]

Back on topic...

I've done several 80% lowers. They are more expensive and way more labor intensive than you think. You can buy a stripped lower for less than the cost of the tools. But man, they are fun to work on.

I use a Harbor Freight bench top drill press for drilling only. I use the 80% Arms jig and have yet to have an issue. I use the press to drill out the pocket and a DeWalt router and the supplied end mill to clean it up. My router is too small, I should have bought one of the bigger ones. It's takes about a day to finish a lower because of the shallow passes I have to take.

That being said, pay close attention to the depth gages and take your time and you'll have a quality lower when you are finished.

 

[Elkins45]

Whenever this topic comes up I feel compelled to post this again:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of_ARs_cheaper__faster__gentler_/4-676733/

 

[Styx]

Back on topic...

I've done several 80% lowers. They are more expensive and way more labor intensive than you think. You can buy a stripped lower for less than the cost of the tools. But man, they are fun to work on.

I use a Harbor Freight bench top drill press for drilling only. I use the 80% Arms jig and have yet to have an issue. I use the press to drill out the pocket and a DeWalt router and the supplied end mill to clean it up. My router is too small, I should have bought one of the bigger ones. It's takes about a day to finish a lower because of the shallow passes I have to take.

That being said, pay close attention to the depth gages and take your time and you'll have a quality lower when you are finished.

What size DeWalt router do you have?

 

[Robert]

What size DeWalt router do you have?

About the smallest they make.

 

[Skylerbone]

I don’t pretend to know a thing about 80% jigs but I do have a few years under my belt when it comes to some basic shop tools.

My first drill press I bought at age 16 was a Delta 8” tabletop model which I quickly sold as it would not accommodate the mortising jig I acquired. I briefly considered Delta’s 12” tabletop model but figured if I was spending the money a full size floor stand model was worth the investment so I bought a 14” Jet. Regardless of size, and I’ve used a few, not one will fare as well as a router when it comes to runout.

Somehow I managed to never lay hands on a router in wood shop because we had a full size shaper. After buying my first I was hooked. Started with a cheap Craftsman, and now own Porter Cable and DeWalt.

The best I’ve ever used were Bosch 1/2” VS plunge models. For a precision cut they are, IMO, as good as it gets for legible and easy to dial adjustment which is what you need for this kind of work. If you don’t mind trial, error, and sometimes tedious adjustments then really any router will do so long as the bit matches your collet size.

My advice, shop Facebook Marketplace for an inexpensive used drill press to hawg things out and finish with a good router. If you know a guy who’s got both, buy a second 80% and offer him a project in exchange for some help, even better if he owns a mill.

 

[cfullgraf]

Building an 80% lower will not provide a budget priced AR-15 if you consider your time to complete the lower.

Building a 80% lower will give you some intimate knowledge of the AR-15 you may not get by other means.

If you have a good milling machine in your shop, you can easily machine an 80% upper, otherwise, I'd recommend getting a jig that uses a router and the appropriate end mill for the task. You will still need a drill press but the router and end mill will do most of the "heavy lifting" work.

Besides getting some intimate knowledge about assembling an AR-15, building an AR-15 from an 80% lower provides a frame that is less traceable than one purchased from a manufacture. You can decide on what the value of that is important to you.

 

[AlexanderA]

Here's a question that has not been addressed in this thread: Suppose you complete an 80% receiver and, for whatever reason, are not happy with the result. Can you sell the unmarked and unserialized completed receiver to another individual? This seems to be a gray area.

 

[Elkins45]

Here's a question that has not been addressed in this thread: Suppose you complete an 80% receiver and, for whatever reason, are not happy with the result. Can you sell the unmarked and unserialized completed receiver to another individual? This seems to be a gray area.

There’s a pretty good discussion of that here:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/...-apply-a-serial-number-to-a-homemade-firearm/

 

[Gumby0961]

I believe 80% lowers made 100%, can only be owned by the person who milled them. They can not be sold, traded, or given away. Even upon death they can not be passed down.

 

[12Bravo20]

I believe 80% lowers made 100%, can only be owned by the person who milled them. They can not be sold, traded, or given away. Even upon death they can not be passed down.

Read the article that Elkins45 posted. It is not required to have a serial number (but recommended). You can build one and later transfer/sell to another individual according to federal law. The main thing is that you can not make an 80% with the intentions of selling it.

 

[Styx]

Read the article that Elkins45 posted. It is not required to have a serial number (but recommended). You can build one and later transfer/sell to another individual according to federal law. The main thing is that you can not make an 80% with the intentions of selling it.

As usual, state law also comes into play... The AlexanderA needs check with the laws in his state as well, but he probably already knows that.

 

[WestKentucky]

Whenever this topic comes up I feel compelled to post this again:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Fruity_Ghost___DIY_100s_of_ARs_cheaper__faster__gentler_/4-676733/

Yeah... and I have already bought the stuff to make my mould but haven’t figured out what resin to use for casting. I also haven’t decided if I want to mould a completed lower or just one with the trigger pocket roughed. A roughed pocket will allow for each lower to have the trigger pin holes drilled which in theory is better than being cast because when you cast you get imperfections, especially in small spaces which can hold air pockets. I’m also considering making it accept washers to reinforce the holes. One additional thing I will do for my mould box is when I make the base plate I will make it a bit long so that I can do a very simple attachment for a cheapo harbor freight drill which will have an Allen wrench in the jaws. When locked on, it will vibrate due to the off balance rotational mass which should work like a concrete vibrator to help fill small voids and provide the most consistent results.

Back to 80% builds...

 

[Insignificant bill]

Building an 80% lower will not provide a budget priced AR-15 if you consider your time to complete the lower.

Building a 80% lower will give you some intimate knowledge of the AR-15 you may not get by other means.

If you have a good milling machine in your shop, you can easily machine an 80% upper, otherwise, I'd recommend getting a jig that uses a router and the appropriate end mill for the task. You will still need a drill press but the router and end mill will do most of the "heavy lifting" work.

Besides getting some intimate knowledge about assembling an AR-15, building an AR-15 from an 80% lower provides a frame that is less traceable than one purchased from a manufacture. You can decide on what the value of that is important to you.

I got pretty good intimate knowledge by just watching diy videos of the process. I plan to stick with stripped lowers as I add to my AR collection

 

[AlexanderA]

There’s a pretty good discussion of that here:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/...-apply-a-serial-number-to-a-homemade-firearm/

That's a pretty good discussion, but it still doesn't answer my specific question.

 

[redneck2]

If you buy any gun, you leave a paper trail. If you buy any ammo with a credit card, you leave a trail. If you post anywhere on the Internet, you leave a trail

And, if guns were outlawed, what are you gonna do with yours? Bury it in the yard? What good is that gonna do? You gonna tell the bad guy “ don’t try to kill me for twenty minutes until I have time to dig up my gun”?

IMO, doing an 80% is a fools errand. But if it’s your thing, knock yourself out

 

[Casefull]

I’ve done a few and they turned out great but I am very experienced with tools and building things. If you’re not you’re gonna have some problems. It’s a lot more expensive than buying the finished lowers. Even if your time is free. The bits for the routers are not cheap. With that being said, I say do it. Then you’ll know. Like those from Missouri, show me.

 

[Elkins45]

That's a pretty good discussion, but it still doesn't answer my specific question.

I’m pretty sure it did. My reading of it is that you can sell an unserialized completed 80% lower just like you can sell any other firearm, unless you finished it just for the purpose of selling it. It is recommended that home builds have a serial number but I haven’t found anything that says it is legally required at a federal level. But I am not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice. I’m also not going to build any 80% lowers. I’ll just buy a used gun at the flea market.

For clarification, if I (not a licensed manufacturer or importer) make a firearm for personal use and at some later date I decide to sell it, am I required to have it marked with any information? If so, what information would be required?

Specialist Babbie provided this clear and unambiguous response:

Firearms markings are only required by those who are licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, and those who make an NFA firearm for personal use. Those marks would be made at the time of import, manufacture, or when an NFA firearm was made for personal use. Under Federal law, no markings would be required in your circumstance.

How is this not an answer to your question, assuming the source is to be trusted?

 

[lysanderxiii]

If you buy any gun, you leave a paper trail. If you buy any ammo with a credit card, you leave a trail. If you post anywhere on the Internet, you leave a trail

And, if guns were outlawed, what are you gonna do with yours? Bury it in the yard? What good is that gonna do? You gonna tell the bad guy “ don’t try to kill me for twenty minutes until I have time to dig up my gun”?

IMO, doing an 80% is a fools errand. But if it’s your thing, knock yourself out

If you are doing it for some nefarious purpose, yes, it is a fools errand. If you are doing it for the multitude of other reasons to make something yourself, like the fun of just doing something on your own, it is a very good use of your time.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Here's a question that has not been addressed in this thread: Suppose you complete an 80% receiver and, for whatever reason, are not happy with the result. Can you sell the unmarked and unserialized completed receiver to another individual? This seems to be a gray area.

Why not?

You can sell an unmarked, unserialized rifle made prior to the 1968 GCA.

No gray.

 

[MistWolf]

Here's a question that has not been addressed in this thread: Suppose you complete an 80% receiver and, for whatever reason, are not happy with the result. Can you sell the unmarked and unserialized completed receiver to another individual? This seems to be a gray area.

The BATF directly addresses this issue. You may sell or gift a personally owned homemade receiver/firearm as an individual, same if you were to offer for sale a personally owned factory produced receiver/firearm. You do not have to assign it a serial number, but the BATF recommends doing so to protect yourself in case of theft or if the firearm is sold, then used in a crime.

 

[Elkins45]

The BATF directly addresses this issue. You may sell or gift a personally owned homemade receiver/firearm as an individual, same if you were to offer for sale a personally owned factory produced receiver/firearm. You do not have to assign it a serial number, but the BATF recommends doing so to protect yourself in case of theft or if the firearm is sold, then used in a crime.

In a bit of bureaucratic silliness, you cannot finish an 80% receiver with the intent of giving it to your kid because that isn’t making a firearm for your personal use. To comply with the law you must have made the gun without said intent and then at some point in the future decide you would like to give it away.

 

[K_Dubbya]

A lot of great information on here thanks everyone! The cost was never the issue, I work for an FFL so I can score great deals and not pay transfer fees. This project is more for my peace of mind knowing that I can if I want to. That being said would these be ideal for knocking out a couple lowers, or would I be better off going with something else? If you have experience in machining your own I would be very interested to know what your experience was and suggestions are.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-12-speed-bench-drill-press-63471.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-24-amp-trim-router-62659.html

 

[AlexanderA]

That being said would these be ideal for knocking out a couple lowers, or would I be better off going with something else? If you have experience in machining your own I would be very interested to know what your experience was and suggestions are.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-12-speed-bench-drill-press-63471.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-24-amp-trim-router-62659.html

The Harbor Freight drill press has a lot of slop, but that's OK because you're going to be using it to roughly hog out material from the FCG pocket. A great deal of precision is not needed in this operation. (I found that you can get a slightly better drill press for the same money at Lowe's or Home Depot.)

On the other hand, precision is needed for the finish router. That $30 Harbor Freight router is not equal to the task. Get something like a Ridgid Compact Router, at a minimum.

 

[Styx]

If you buy any gun, you leave a paper trail. If you buy any ammo with a credit card, you leave a trail. If you post anywhere on the Internet, you leave a trail

And, if guns were outlawed, what are you gonna do with yours? Bury it in the yard? What good is that gonna do? You gonna tell the bad guy “ don’t try to kill me for twenty minutes until I have time to dig up my gun”?

IMO, doing an 80% is a fools errand. But if it’s your thing, knock yourself out

Are you for FFL record keeping, firearm registration, and required serialization? Using your logic, all the above would not make a difference either way because the purchase of a firearm with a credit card is the exact equivalent to FFL record books and registration.

The fact is that an unserialized item can not be traced period. If a finished or unfinished lower is dropped in the middle of the street, anonymously shipped in the via mail, gifted to a friend, found at a scene from a crime, so on and so forth, it can not be traced back to anyone. There is no paper trail that can directly connect a person to a specific item. There's generally no way to tell when the specific item in question was purchased and from whom. There's a reason why the left and L.E bureaucracts wants FFL record keeping, firearm registration, and required serialization by law.

With that said, most people do it to avoid having to deal with the government red tape. It can be conveniently delivered to someone's front door, there aren't any waits,background checks, permits, etc. Many others just are just the DIY.

I, like many others who are the DIY types, already have drills, multiple type of saws, routers, sanders, and a plethora of other tools. Our only cost is the price of a jig and the the lower.