870 Express vs. 870 Wingmaster

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Hello folks!,
I think of buying myself a Rem 870 for HD (minimum barrel length allowed is 20'' now over here).
The Wingmaster is much more expensive compared to the Express model and I wonder if its worth the price. So, I would be grateful if you could enlighten me about the pros and cons of each model.
In particular I would like to ask if the Wingmaster is more rust-resistant than the Express model, which some hunters told me that rusts rather easily.
Also, is it bad that the barrels are not chromed? Almost all european SG barels are. The other alternative is the Nova, but the 870 fits me better
Thanks for any help :)
 
The Wingmaster has a glossy finish on the receiver, and nice wood with a nice glossy finish. The express has a matte finish (which may or may not be thinner blueing...I don't know) and lower quality wood.
 
I have three Wingmasters in various gauges, and think it is worth the money for what you get in added finish and feel, but if money is tight I wouldn't hesitate to get an Express. They have a parkerized finish that is a dull matte and hardwood instead of walnut for stocks. The workings are basically identical, fit and finish are not.

I have handled the Expresses and they will last longer than you will, but usually they need a break in period to be half as smooth as a Wingmaster out of the box. This is my experience and my opinion. I like a nice pleasing to the eyes gun. Wingmaster: yes. Express: no.
 
The only complete Express here is the 20 gauge YE I got for the kids. There's two other Express barrels. No rust on anything here, and the 20 is reasonably smooth with maybe 1K rounds through it. Hardly enough to get in broken in.

All else equal, I'd rather have a used WM. There's plenty of them out there.
 
The last time I checked the Express had:
A rougher finish inside and out. More burrs.
A rough black finish.
A hard wood or synthetic stock.
Cheaper, impressed checkering.
A black bolt.
A plastic trigger group.
"Possible" a two piece barrel.
The new style magazine assembly with plastic parts.
A rougher bore in the barrel.
Uses some MIM, (moulded steel parts) in critical areas, like the extractor.

The Wingmaster had:
A much smoother finish inside and out. No burrs.
A polished blue finish.
Walnut or synthetic stocks with choice of gloss or satin finish.
Better quality checkering.
A chrome plated bolt.
An aluminum trigger group.
A one piece barrel.
The old style steel magazine assembly.
A much smoother bore.
No MIM parts are used in any critical area.

Bottom line: If you want a better quality, better looking gun, buy the Wingmaster.
If price is your big concern, buy the Express.

Few American shotguns have chrome plated bores.
The only real difference is, the barrel requires a little more care to prevent rust than a plated bore does.
With a owner that cares about his gun, this isn't really an issue.
 
I vote Wingmaster. The price difference is nothing compared to how much you will spend on ammo, and I love the high gloss wood and shiney blue.
 
I vote Express. The WM is nicer, but if price is any object at all, the Express will be hella cheaper. You can find used WMs, but you can also find used Expresses, too. After all, this is a pump shotgun, not a museum piece. :)
 
Thanks for the replies folks!
The used firearm market over here is not that big, so a used WM (or an Express for that matter) is not realy an option. So I have to buy new.
 
Hello folks!,
I think of buying myself a Rem 870 for HD (minimum barrel length allowed is 20'' now over here).
The Wingmaster is much more expensive compared to the Express model and I wonder if its worth the price. So, I would be grateful if you could enlighten me about the pros and cons of each model.
In particular I would like to ask if the Wingmaster is more rust-resistant than the Express model, which some hunters told me that rusts rather easily.
Also, is it bad that the barrels are not chromed? Almost all european SG barels are. The other alternative is the Nova, but the 870 fits me better
Thanks for any help

Too bad you can't buy used, given what you are looking for a good used Express would be a perfect choice and would save you some money as well. If you are looking for a strictly HD shotgun the Express will do all you need done. The Wingmaster is a lot prettier, sure, but show-off qualities are usually not a big selling point for a working gun.

It does seem that some particular examples of Express guns have a rust problem. At last count there are a bit more than a half dozen (well, just the 12 bores anyway) at Casa Lapin. Of those, one (a very early example) seems to be rust prone no matter what. The others are no worse about rusting than any of the polished and blued guns here. The finish is a matte blue on the Expresses, and I get the feeling some examples may not get a full rinse after the bluing tank and some bluing salts are still present maybe.

It's not a big deal that the bore is not chromed. Other than on the Marine Magnum I doubt it's necessary. Basic maintenance will take care of any potential problems, and the 870 is an easy design to maintain.

I don't think you'd go wrong with the Express version- spend the extra money on ammunition, practice and training.

lpl/nc
 
It would have been a really easy choice if the Express had the same fit and finish in the internal parts with the WM.
What is a ("possible") two piece barrel as opposed to a one piece barrel?
 
Lee Lapin:

The real difference between the Wingmaster/Police guns and the Express is the Wingmaster/Police is Remington's top-of-the-line gun, and the Express is the "budget" gun intended to compete with the much cheaper to make Mossberg and Winchester guns.

In order to lower production costs, the Express uses:
A number of MIM (Metal Injection Moulded) or moulded steel parts. The MIM extractor MAY be a problem since a number of broken extractors have been reported.

The use of a number of plastic parts, like the trigger group.

Has a different magazine spring retention assembly, which makes it necessary to permanently modify the magazine if you want to add a magazine extension.

The Express has a somewhat rougher, less polished bore.

The use of hardwood stocks with cruder impressed checkering, and a cheaper finish.

And last, the Express has a much rougher, unpolished finish inside and out, with the presence of some sharp burrs.

The basic gun is still the forged and milled steel 870, and service life appears to be about the same as the higher grade 870's.

The Express finish appears to be a bead blasted blue finish.
Many owners report rust problems, but the "Fix" appears to be to coat the gun thoroughly with a rust preventing lube.
Some owners report good luck with coating the gun with a wax.

In any event, the rough finish does seem to hold lube better than a smooth, polished blue finish.

Most American guns do not have chrome lined barrels, and the only difference is the non-lined barrels need better owner maintenance.

9x19mm:

I'm unsure about this, but on many Express guns a close look at the rear of the barrel "appears" to show what MAY be a separate rear extension and locking recess assembly.

This is one way a barrel can be made cheaper, since the complicated, expensive extension could be made and a barrel brazed in place.

On many guns I can see what appears to be a joint just in front of the chamber, visible on the OUTSIDE of the barrel.

This is difficult to see due to the heavy bead blasted finish, and I MAY be wrong.
 
I recently bought one of each. First I got the express and found that the parts dont fit together well, the finish rusts, and the stock feels like garbage. I bought the 870 police, which has many of the same features of the wingmaster, and could not be happier. The express lives in the closet in case something goes wrong with my police model (I dont think this gun will ever break).

Do yourself a favor and get the police/wingmaster right away
 
I duck hunt with an 870 express, which means I stand there with rain pouring on the gun, and down the bbl sometimes, it has been dropped in muddy water or at least splashed good every trip. When I get home, I clean and oil the gun, and rust has not been a problem. So the moral of the story...keep it oiled and it won't rust.
 
I'm with duckslayer. I took up duck hunting this year. My gun took an inadvertent swim. So the stock swelled a little; some time in a wood-heated hunting camp cured that. A thorough clean and lube of the metal bits and it hasn't rusted any more than it has in the previous few years of neglect. I've taken much better care of it this year than I had previously. Mine is an older 20-gauge Express with what seems to be an anodized aluminum trigger guard assembly. Needless to say, I hope I can convince a 12-ga Express to end up in my safe eventually, probably with a synthetic stock.

FWIW, I do want an older fixed-choke Wingmaster sometime as well. A local gunshop had one with the 2.75" reciever and a 26" fixed IC VR barrel for around 300. Mmmmm......
 
My club put two 870 Expresses (mine) through their paces in a recent student shoot. Hundreds of shells through both guns, lots of newbie shooters, and neither missed a beat.

I have Expresses because they are cheap, and you can buy them at Wally World. The gun stores around my area suck and buying an 870 Police would have cost TWICE as much as a simple 870 Express Turkey. Wally World does sell WMs but they are pretty expensive, too, and they come with long barrels unsuited to home defense.
 
I've had an 870 express for the last 13 years. I used to use it to shoot trap and skeet with it every weekend 6 months out of the year, for a few years. I've duck hunted on the nastiest days of the year with it. I live in a very high humidity area. The long and the short of it no problems. I have yet to ever break a part, I've found that as long as you wipe the gun down, after you are through with it, with an oily cloth it will not rust. Really its that simple.

I own an 870 police wingmaster, and a regular wingmaster. There is no real difference in the smoothness of the action between the three in my guns, but I have ran quite a bit of ammo through my express. The express does have a polymer trigger guard, but not entire trigger assembly, so does my glock, no problem with either of them. My opinion, buy the express, and spend the difference in price on ammo. While there is an endless argument over MIM I sincerely doubt that you will ever run really that many rounds through an HD shotgun, you may, but probably not, and parts for 870's are easy to come by and install.

Also a really good friend of mine's father in-law works at Remington's test facility, his job is to break guns for a living. Last year for christmas he gave his son in-law an 870 express for HD. You may draw your own conclusions from that.
I would however recommend that you expect several examples of any particular gun that you might want to but and try to pick the one that appears to be the smoothest and best machined.
Beaverboard
 
I use my express for ducks, goose, phesants, skeet, and if I ever find a 3.5 inchslug barrel, hopefully deer hunting in snow as well. Mine has synthetic furniture so I dont worry about swelling, but don't blink at rust. just a good cleaning when I get home and all is good.

Another thought for HD shotty, If you are stuck on a 870, so be it, great guns, you won't regret it; however, places like my local Big-5 store have the Mossy 500 HD shottys at low prices ($250.00ish IIRC). More round capacity, shorter barrel, synth stocks, better safty and bolt release location (at least in my hands). Things that make you go hmmmmmm
 
I have always liked the WM for the beautiful Wood & Blue. I take care of and maintain my firearms, they are tools and therefore are used.

I have no problem with the Express, these are especially great values for someone that does not use a shotgun that often. Meaning - they do get a quality fiream for a fair price.

I have my druthers as far as gun fit, triggers, safeties - I hate the J hook safety ,and have proven over and over again how easy to LOCK the gun up and without a tool the gun will not work. Be it getting caught afield or for serious use. I also have my druthers about recoil pads, beads, mid beads, magazine followers and such.

I have a newer 870 Express I paid $199 for , less the $ 25 rebate = $174. I have left it stock - EXCEPT the safety, mine had the J hook replaced first thing.

Try as I have, I cannot find any problems with the Express - except the J hook safety. I am running it hard and "trying to" get a plastic part to fail. I cleaned it , relubed it , treated the wood ( sealed the ends and such) , teated the mag tube and bbl with RIG. I have added some lube, and cleaned the chamber. 500 rds in one day didn't hurt it, and 200 of those were slugs. I even let the slugs be dirty to see if I could get the plastic mag follower to goof up...it didn't .

I guess I need to toss in a dirty mud puddle and let sit for a few days and then run it. Probably do as others have done when tested like this...it will run.

I have and plan on continuing to use as is. NO sided saddles, no mag extensions. At some point I will find a bbl someone goofed up, make a 21" or 23" bbl and add external knurled chokes,most likely by Nuline. I already know what this can and will do. This is a " rough and tumble, don't worry about it, toss it in the bed of a truck and do any and everything shotgun".

Rust...I have always used RIG, to protect externals and to treat bores.

I have also used a good car wax with Carunuba to protect the exterior metal. Johnson's Paste Wax, or Minwax Paste Wax I have always used for the wood ( including b/t metal and wood) and does a great job on the exterior metal as well.

I appreciate fine wood and blue, I prefer the WM, then again I understand " What is this going to be used for and how will I treat it".

Something about beating a guy with a muddy , dirty Express and he is shooting a Kolar I guess. ;)

I do have the "Wants" for a Itahca 37 in Wood and Blue...them 'Purty...and "Just Because". :)
 
had mine since 1992.......

It was my first gun. Mine has also been used for every thing from water fowl,
squirrel, deer, boar, upland bird, and lots and lots of trap and skeet. Every bit
as smooth as the wingmaster finish is not as pretty, neither is the wood. Ive
already gotten a set of nice walnut stocks, and chrome bolt for under
a hundred. I regulary out shoot my buddy with his 5k custom beretta. The
express is the best deal out there, no question. The internals are identical
to the WM (barring the new plastic trigger guard, mine came with the
aluminum), the olnly diff. is the black oxide blue finish, and hard wood stocks,
which lets face it guys, doesnt look THAT bad. It is an all steel gun, that you'll pass down to your kids, and they to theirs. Meaning you wont be able
to kill it. Trust me on that one. :D
 
The looks of the Express are good enough for a HD and hunting SG. I mostly care about the internal workings :)
 
Are the new Express models as good as the older ones? I hear that in general older SGs were of better quality (better metal used, more metal parts etc) :confused:
 
Many of us think that quality control at Remington has slipped in recent times. However, little that isn't serviceable has turned up.

Every Express I've handled works. IMO, it takes a little longer for the Express to get slick at pumping, but they do slick up. The one here is reasonable smooth if not as slick as my high use WMs. Time and a truckload of ammo will fix that.

I see no difference in durability or longevity between the Express and the Wingmaster models.
 
I've lots of Wingmaster experience. I've got one Express.

I used the Express in a 3gun match last Saturday. ARRRGGHH!!! If you are used to a slick and fast Wingmaster then the Express sucks. It is just so much rougher it is ridiculous.

I've used older Expresses with out a problem, so I think mostly Remington is slipping. I bought this one because I needed a beater for a project, and I got it used for a really good deal. Now I'm kicking myself. Pump, bobble, bobble, hang up, there ya go, repeat. And speed loading blows with all of the absurdly sharp edges.

If you are just hunting, or busting clays, where speed pumping doesn't really enter into it, then the Express will probably be just fine. If you are going to do any speed shooting, then get the Wingmaster. Some of you guys know me and my history with 870s in 3gun, so take my word for it, if you are going to use a pump in that style of competition, spend the extra and get the nicer gun.
 
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