870 Reputation

[357wheelgunner]

(I started this thread on glocktalk after someone was bashing the 870 design after bad luck with an EXPRESS model, thought it'd be interesting to see what the THR folks thought)

Too many people believe that you can pay $175 for a Remington 870 express and get a quality well made gun. The 870 reputation was built on the wingmaster and police models, not the crappy express line. The express line is cheap and unfinished and use second rate parts. You can't expect the 870 reputation built on their police level guns to carry over to the $175 HD model you bought from walmart. This is way too overlooked.

To get a good Remington 870, you need to spend the $450 or so and get a Police model. I had an 870 express HD, what a piece of crap. The chamber was not polished, nothing was fitted properly, and the finish was almost as bad as my Romanina SAR-1 AK 47 clone. I bought a Police model from Hoplite Inc. two weeks later and have been very happy with it. Everything is fitted and finished properly and it is tough as nails. Also been 100% reliable with slugs, buck, birdshot, you name it. Now I have a matching 870 Wingmaster from the '70s to keep my police model company. Never again will an 870 express be in my house.

The express models were made to compete against cheapo trash shotguns like the Mossy 500 and others.

Please, everyone, stop saying how you got "screwed" by Remington and that 870s are crap based on the second-rate express models. To get an 870 worthy of it's reputation you need to pay the money for a good shotgun and get a Police or Wingmaster model

 

[WillBrayJr]

News flash, both the Express and the Wingmaster are the same on the inside. The Express is the no-frills model of the Wingmaster, with hardwood stocks and a special parkerize type finish. Thats it! Go ahead and take both apart, they will interchange perfectly.

I wouldn't go Trashing Mossberg either, the Military uses them. Sounds like we got a preppy gun snob.

 

[Dave McCracken]

I disagree. While only one of the 6 870s here is an Express, I've been able to handle and fire a number of Expresses at the range. They've done all that was wanted.

That includes the synthetic stocked Supermag I used for one shot today on Range 7. Box stock, 2 years old and smooth as heck. Nice trigger also.

The little 20 gauge YE here is not as smooth as my venerable WMs, but another few K of ammo will fix that. The trigger is heavier also, but only by a lb and clean.

As near as I can tell, the only difference between new Expresses and WMs is cosmetics

 

[sm]

I like OLDER guns - period. Something about the Soul, deep blue, the wood. I dunno seems folks took a bit more pride with their craft and skills, and less meddlin' with litigation, and bean counters.

Applicable to any firearm.

Yes the New Wingmasters are better looking, smoother out of the box.

That said, I became tired, hell I still am, of reading some Internet Armchair folks that clean guns never shot, or too busy AND broke bolting stuff on and off a gun they never shoot to actually know what works and what doesn't.

They cannot afford ammo, and range fees, not with all the expense of doodads and add-ons. Then again they have every type of Mall Ninja super hero high tech gun cleaner and lube too...

I bought a 870 Express.

I removed the J hook safety, and replaced with the original old style that has worked for 50 years. That was MY pet peeve. I can lock up a J hook safety with NO tools so fast I will surprise you. Being into reliable as I am - it had to go.

That is the only thing I have done to the gun as far as the original configurations from stock.

Yes I treated the wood to seal it, and Waxed the metal.

I have run this gun hard, I have tried to tear it up. Even shot in the rain, and plopped into a mud puddle. It ran. I rinsed in a stream , it ran. Poured ash can sand in it, it ran.

Pissed me off I went to all this trouble and had to clean it . Internet Armchairs said it wouldn't hold up and I figured I'd sent in to Rem dirty. I was lied to . That pissed me off even more.

"They said" , it wouldn't hold up, well I only had 200 slugs that day, or I would kept shooting slugs. "They said" it wouldn't hold up , so in one weekend I ran thru 1K rds, damn thing wouldn't break. So I didn't clean it for 6 months, even the damn chamber wouldn't goof up.

Finally said to hell with it, shooting in the rain - again, I cleaned it up and quit trying to break it. Maybe sitting there with re-stock sealed, metal re-waxed, in a safe with no ammo , I'll peer in one day and see it went "poof". 'Cause my other trying didn't work.

*shrug*

Of course I'm the idiot that had a sear break on a Kreighoff and I managed to break two Novas. *shrug*

 

[Mulliga]

The Expresses have been fine for me (I have two, in 12 ga. and 20 ga.), except that the wood is pretty crappy. This led to the forearm of my 20 ga. getting loose and stopping me from closing the action (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=123256&highlight=870). Not a big deal, and afterwards I shot a few games of skeet and trap.

One time I shot my 20 ga. Express at 50 straight trap targets as fast as I could load the chamber. The barrel got incredibly hot, my arms were getting tired, the shells were getting hard to shuck, but the ole 870 never faltered.

Another time I donated my shotguns for the club shooting festival. I don't know how many hundreds of rounds passed through them, but they came through with flying colors.

 

[TWBryan]

"The express models were made to compete against cheapo trash shotguns like the Mossy 500 and others."

Nice. Very High Road indeed.

TWBryan

 

[Ringer]

Hmmm, I guess I missed something because I have heard very few people complain about their 870 or their Mossberg 500 for that matter. I have two 870 Express models. While they may not match up to a Wingmaster or Police model they are still fine guns. I also have an SAR-1 which I could not even imagine using as a comparison finish wise to my 870s.

For ME, my 870s are easily worthy of their reputation - they look fine and always go bang when I pull the trigger. Also if I could by 870 HDs for $175 I'd buy a pile of 'em.

 

[357wheelgunner]

""The express models were made to compete against cheapo trash shotguns like the Mossy 500 and others."

Nice. Very High Road indeed."

TWBryan, you got me. I should not have made such a blanket statement. Mossy 500s are not "trash"....They just don't feel very solid to me. I retract my statement that 500s are trash, and will say instead that I don't like the fit/feel/function of them. Sorry, that was not very "High Road" of me. I forget sometime that this forum is to get away from statements like that. Sorry again guys.

Again the reason I made this thread was because I've seen a lot of people say that 870s are bad because they had a bad experience with an express model. The specific complaints are rusty guns or unfinished chambers. Express guns are OK if you get a good one, but a lot of people expect too much from a <$200 gun.

 

[Jesse308]

Sm, how do you manage to brake two Novas?

 

[Fred Fuller]

Ouch...

Several of the 870s hereabouts are Express guns. In fact MOST of them are. I have had nothing but good experiences with Express guns, and would recommend a good used old style Express gun to absolutely anyone looking for a pumpgun as a worthwhile purchase. By old style I mean pre- J lock safety/plastic trigger plate/magazine tube dimples. Yes they are still out there, lots of them.

I have never been able to tell that there are "cheaper" parts in the Expresses, in fact I can't tell any difference at all from a mechanical standpoint. Yes, the finish is a bead- blasted matte blue. The fit and finish on the furniture might not be as nice. None of that has anything to do with how the gun SHOOTS, just how it looks. Some people spend a lot of money on something called "pride of ownership." Not for me to say that's wrong, it's just a factor that is not of much interest personally. I want simple relatively inexpensive guns that work reliably and last a long time. That's why an 870 Express works for me, it fills that bill admirably.

lpl/nc

 

[sm]

Sm, how do you manage to brake two Novas?

When they first became available, a fellow had two and said " Wring these out Steve". So I did.

The rotary bolt took out on the first one. I was doing a bunch of shooting back then and maybe I was just shucking too fast. I was shucking and shooting as fast as I could slugs and buckshot loads. All of a sudden I noticed two things: 1) I was bloody from getting cut up on the sharp gun, 2) it wouldn't eject a shell, much less chamber one when the spent one was removed.

Bandaged up ( and a bit ticked at such sharp places cutting me but good) I ran the second gun hard as well. Using some some skeet loads...well the forearm started to feel funny, then I noticed the pattern was not going were pointed - as it had been.

Only I could split a modular forearm , cutting myself yet again, and the screw in choke was split. It was fine when I installed it, I even used anti-sieze on the threads. Choke tube was split from the end inserted first, about 3/4 the way toward muzzle end. I got it out .

Fella was not upset , Bennelli took care of the guns no problems. They did not report what all they did.

I suspect the choke was not below the step in the bbl where it fits. I had visually inspected it. I should have run a test I do to make sure - I didn't.

Anything can and will break. *shrug* It happens.

Go over the Novas for any sharp places and smooth. Test the step in the bbl and choke to make sure the choke is BELOW the step.

Don't pump them as fast as I did.

 

[Rupestris]

To get a good Remington 870, you need to spend the $450 or so and get a Police model

Did you spend $450 on that Wingmaster?

Maybe you should sell it to me for what you paid for it. Seein' as its not a police model.

 

[LoadedDrum]

As I said on the other forum, you got a lemon. Sorry to hear it but it happens to every mfg now and then.

 

[RoyG]

My son uses his 870 express magnum almost every weekend to shoot skeet. Never had a problem with it and it wasn't one of the cheap $175 ones. It was a even cheaper $125 one (used). He probably has over a thousand rounds through it since we got it and no telling how many before.

 

[ruger357]

Have had nothing but good luck with my 870 express shotguns, and I don't baby them. I like them so much that I just bought the 7 shot hd model. I paid a little more than $175 for it though. Granted my Wingmaster is prettier but as other's stated its all the same inside.

 

[Brian Dale]

357W,

Please, everyone, stop saying how you got "screwed" by Remington

"everyone?" -- I don't see that view stated very much around here.
"stop saying?" Haven't started; no reason to. I can't stop beating my wife, either (never started, and don't have one ).

Wingmasters are prettier; I'll sure agree with you on that, r357.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am not sure why you need to spend $450 for a Rem 870. For $450, you can get their nickel Marine Magnum with extended magazine, one of their most durable guns. I would suggest that you don't need to pay anymore than $450 as the blued versions are cheaper.

 

[RTFM]

357wheelgunner...
I've seen a lot of people say that 870s are bad because they had a bad experience with an express model.

Sorry, but it just sounds like this thread is based more on hearsay than actual experience with the Express, other than what you seen, what first hand experience with the 870 Express do you have other than the 14 days you had your Express?

It seems like 14 days is far to short to make an educated assessment of the Express.

My .02

RTFM

 

[Dave McCracken]

MD is not high desert. It's quite moist, in fact, kinda like Ireland. If Expresses are easy to rust up, it doesn't seem to happen here given a modicum of care. The few I've seen with acne have been owned by the PM challenged.

The other complaint I hear is that they're not as smooth. Work polishing cures that. So does the break in method mentioned in the floaters.

I hear more bad stuff about Expresses than I see.

 

[JohnBT]

"Too many people believe that you can pay $175 for a Remington 870 express and get a quality well made gun."

Because it's true. Well, I admit they're (any model 870) not machined from barstock, but they do work just fine.

I don't need glossy blue and finely grained walnut to push a boat through the mud and tall grass to wrestle with the ducks. You can throw your pretty guns in the bottom of the boat with the icy bloody bilgewater, but I won't.

I broke in mine in 1993 by packing the action with Flitz and pumping away one day when I was stuck at home with the flu. I hand fit a Pachmayr recoil pad to take some of the sting out of the big duck loads, but a Wingmaster would have needed one too.

John

 

[9mmMike]

My first two 870's were Express models. One of them is still my smoothest running 870 and this includes the two WM's and the police trade-in.
I shoot them in the rain because is rains a bunch here in SE PA and I've had no "Express rust problems" that I hear about but have yet to see.
I still like the looks of the WM's, even my old, unrestored, '55 with blue so thin it's more like polished steel but I've no complaints about my Express models except for the PC dimples, which I removed anyway.
I have a friend who bought an 870 Express a couple years ago. He started shooting with me and liked it so much, he bought his own gun. It was a brand new Express from WallyWorld with a 28" VR rem-choked barrel and stupid j-locks.
He shoots with me almost every time I go out and sometimes takes his brothers or son's to shoot.
His gun gets smoother every time he shoots it and it has never given him any real trouble. He did need to spend some time polishing the chamber as he had an occasional failure to extract when it was hot but this seems to have gone away either from the round count or the 0000 wool.
You could hardly find a cheaper, more no frills gun than his and it works fine.
Mike

 

[romulus]

they're (any model 870) not machined from barstock

That's true. The receivers are machined from forgings, which is even better.

 

[freedomlover]

In defense of the Express 870's...

...mine has never given me a minute's trouble. It doesn't even have the mysterious rusting problem I hear so much about! Seems about as tough as my Wingmaster, although definitely not as purty. (Purty is as purty does, though.) Then again I'm an oddball, 'cuz my Mossbergs have never given me any trouble either. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe they're both reliable, sturdy designs. Mr. Petzal seems to think so, he included both in his F&S "50 Best Guns" article.

I do have a question for the Honorable Mr. McC, who mentioned something a while back about service life of 870's being something like 250K rounds. What parts are the weak link in the chain? Just curious, I'll never get anywhere near that # of shells through my guns.

Unless I win the lottery, that is.

 

[Dave McCracken]

The receivers seem to crack about that round count. I'll let you know if any of mine do when I get there.

250,000 shells are 10,000 rounds of trap or skeet. Or, 5000 rounds of SC.

 

[txgolfer45]

357,

Wrong! The 870 Express is a workhorse. Sure, it isn't pretty. But, it is meant to be in the field not at the "Club" shooting skeet, trap or sporting clays.

My 870 Express in 12 ga. and 20 ga. are keepers!! BTW, I got both for around $450 new.

Scott