870 V 500 triggers

[30-06 lover]

I am looking into getting a HD shotgun and after doing research on both the500 and 870, the main complaint of the 500 is the plastic trigger housing, but the 870 express also has a plastic trigger housing. What gives? Is the more plastic in the trigger of the 500 or something? Please educate. Thanks!

 

[Robert Hairless]

I don't know the 500 but do have experience with the 870s, including the Express.

Like you we did have reservations about the plastic trigger housing on the Express. But after working an Express hard for a few years we haven't had any problems with it. I don't know anyone else who has had problems with it either.

What I hadn't expected was that the Express trigger housing actually has an advantage over the metal housing in the more expensive 870s. Their finish shows wear. The Express's doesn't.

 

[MarshallDodge]

My Mossberg 590A1 has an aluminum trigger housing. My Benelli Nova has a completely plastic receiver and trigger guard. It is made of some kind of tough polymer like the stuff they make the XD or Glock frames from. Those are pretty tough.

 

[Dave McCracken]

To this time, I've NEVER heard of a plastic TG busting. As visible as I am, I think I would.

 

[30-06 lover]

Thanks for the replies. I have heard it said several times over that you can wear out a Mossy, but an 870 will last for generations. Shorty after those kinds of remarks, the issue of plastic in the Mossy always came up. Sorry for my ignorance, but what make the Rem last so much longer? Thanks!

 

[Regolith]

30-06: The Remington's receiver is made from steel. Mossberg's is made from Aluminum. Simply put, steel stands up better to hundreds of thousands of 12 gauge shotgun shells than aluminum does.

However, most people will never put that many rounds through their shotgun. Unless you shoot a lot, either shotgun will last longer than you do. You may have to replace a few parts here and there, but the receiver should last a long time.

 

[Blue .45]

I have heard it said several times over that you can wear out a Mossy,

Well, you can certainly try. Mine is still relatively new, but there are guys on this board who've been using them for twenty or thirty years and haven't done it yet. I'm sure it can be done, just plan on doing some hard work.

 

[30-06 lover]

Thank you all for the replies. I am stuck on which to get as I much prefer the controls of the 500, but I like the way the 870 feels a lot better in the hands, probably due to the fact that I have been shooting an 11-87 for 10 years. I may go a different way altogether and get a semi, but of the two I am leaning toward the 500. Thanks again.

 

[Abner]

Funny, this is exactly the same thing that I am considering. It's between the 6+1 870 express and the 5+1 Mossberg 500. Both in 20 gauge and both within $20 of each other.
On the one hand, the 870 holds 1 more round, on the other the 500 has the top mounted safety and from what I've read here or at the other forum, if you fail to manipulate the slide action on a 500 properly, the live round drops to the floor instead of jamming the action like it can on the 870. I've never owned a 500 before so I have no experience with that.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Duplicate.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Dave and others here have infinitely more expertise than I ever will have but the only failures I've ever seen in manipulating the 870 have been caused by people who baby it. Slam the forearm back, slam the forearm forward: it's made for brutes, same as the Model 1911 pistol.

Present company excepted of course.

 

[ArmedBear]

The 870 is a great gun, even the Express. It balances well, shoots well and it lasts a long, long time.

The plastic trigger housing doesn't bother me. I have an 870 Express and an 1100 Magnum with the metal housing, and like Robert Hairless said, the Express doesn't show wear or scratches. The plastic trigger group housing appears to be quite durable and the material is well-matched to the application.

Anyway, what I did want to mention is that, while the 870 is a great gun and the Express trigger group is well-built, the 870's trigger is kinda nasty. Not the trigger pull, but the actual trigger. I'm going to put a trigger shoe on my 1100 and my 870.

 

[eliphalet]

My choice would be the 500 because it has a tang safety. I have had several of both guns all have always worked great for me. IMHO the 870 is of a higher quality but not enough to matter to most of us. The tang safety is far better in the dark in a HD situation.

 

[MAX100]

Bottom line the manufactures use plastic to cut their cost. I would rather have a metal guard but I have never seen or heard of a plastic one getting broke or cracked. What is more important is the position of the safety, the action bar lock and shell lifter. They are different on both guns. Rather than me or others go through the ins and outs of all the features, which many of us will not agree on, I suggest you read these links on the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500. It will help you in your decision. The first one is bias for the Mossberg 500 but it explains the in and outs of both shotguns. The second is a little bias towards the 870 Police but explains the ins and outs of Remington 870 Police and the Mossberg 590 both manufactures top of the line tactical shotguns. The 590 is a model 500 with different magazine tube set up and the 590A1 is a military shotgun that has some beefed up metal parts. Both good reads.

I know no one cares but I like the 870 design.

Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 link:
http://members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html

Remington 870 Police and the Mossberg 590 Link:
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/shotguns/compare_870_590.html


GC

 

[Robert Hairless]

ArmedBear, what do you mean when you say the 870 trigger is "nasty"? I've not noticed anything about it one way or the other.

Others: I do like the idea of the Mossberg's tang safety and I'm not a fan of Remington's little button safety. What I've done on all our Remingtons, though, is to take good advantage of its position by replacing the Remington safety with an oversize Vang safety. We don't even bother to take the safety off before mounting the gun for its first shot: when the safety is on, pressure from the trigger finger flicks it off when we want. So what was a slight disadvantage has become a nifty advantage. Cost: $12.00.

 

[Jaenak]

The 870 has a VERY large customer base but the Mossberg 500 was the only one to pass the military's stress test. That little feat won Mossberg a not so little contract. Remington didn't even submit it's 870 for the contract test. Remington said it had too much to lose and not enough to gain. I personally believe that says they don't believe in their product as much as they should. Don't think I'm bad mouthing the 870 though, it's still a really good gun. All I'm saying is that the 500 matches the good points of the 870 point for point.

I know that an 870 goes like the energizer bunny but then again so does the 500. If you had a 500 and a 870 and used them just as much as the other, they'd both quit at about the same time. Also, don't worry about the plastic trigger because I haven't heard of anyone having problems with it either. Just be careful what cleaners you use because there's a couple cleaners out there that'll dissolve plastic. The one benefit the 870 has over the 500 though is that if you want to customize it, the 870 has a myriad of parts available whereas the 500 has almost no aftermarket parts available. Trust me, I have a 500 and I did customize mine. Performing the work to put the parts on was kind of a bugger but finding the parts to buy was a nightmare! The 870 though has aftermarket parts everywhere you look though. It's kind of a toss up. The things to consider in this little matchup is first, how does it feel in your hands? Does it point naturally? Also, do you want a wood stock or a composite stock? Do you want to be able to buy aftermarket parts to customize your gun at any time in the future? How much does each one cost? Either one will be a very good choice.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Jaenak, the Military specified a tang safety when it asked for bids. Remington would have had to retool on a shotgun they're selling plenty of anyway.

The 50K of shotguns bought by the Gummint is about 3 months sales for the 870.

And if you keep a close eye on the vids from the fronts, you can see lots of 870s as well as the Benellis and Mossbergs.

As for wearing out stuff, best guess I have is that a Mossberg can be worn out in about 65K rounds, an 870 is 250K.

65K is still a lot of rounds. I've yet to put that many through a single shotgun.

 

[jad0110]

Just be careful what cleaners you use because there's a couple cleaners out there that'll dissolve plastic.

Anyone know what cleaners are to be avoided? Something like Gunk Out?

 

[ArmedBear]

There are different kinds of plastic.

One major difference is thermoset vs. thermoplastic. Thermoset plastic melts once, when it's molded, then it doesn't melt again, even if you heat it up. Thermoplastic is hard at room temperature, but melts whenever it gets heated.

Another major difference is how it reacts to chemicals, and which chemicals. I have little doubt that, for all their faults, Remington chose a plastic that isn't melted by solvents used in gun cleaning. If they hadn't, think of the negative reputation the things would have by now! (Ditto for Glock, Springfield, Benelli, whoever makes plastic guns.)

That said, Hoppes works fine and doesn't seem to attack the plastic at all. Why bother using anything else on an 870?

 

[ArmedBear]

WRT my comment about the trigger:

The Remington trigger is narrow, flat, has sharp edges, and the little square and pointy end of it can trap your finger or glove. Other triggers on shotguns I have are rounded and smooth, or flat with round ribs, with rounded-off ends, and the overall shape of the trigger is more ergonomic, so my finger is sort of "cradled" better than the Remington design, and doesn't ever slip off the bottom of the trigger under recoil.

Now I will grant that this is a more significant problem with an 1100, since they way the semiauto works and is used makes problems with the trigger more likely. However, with my remmies, in our desert conditions when my skin gets dry, I've actually cut my trigger finger on the things, either on the side or end of the trigger. More than once. So far, this hasn't happened with other guns I've owned or used.

There's a relatively inexpensive aftermarket solution for the narrow, sharp trigger. Some people here led me to this page (thank you!): http://www.t-grips.com/TriggerShoeHomepage1.html

The thing that strikes me, though, is that I don't think it should be too hard for Remington to fix this.

 

[Dave McCracken]

AB, there's a half dozen trigger shoes on divers firearms here at Casa McC. That includes a couple 870s.

 

[Robert Hairless]

ArmedBear, I hadn't noticed. I'll look more closely tomorrow though.

 

[SGW42]

My 1100 has the metal trigger guard and my 870 Express has the plastic one. I would normally be bothered by such plastic on a long gun but it appears to be of high quality - like someone above said, it feels like the same material used on polymer framed pistols. Seems to fit the "idea" of an Express anyway, so I've come to like it.

And I actually like Remington's location of the safety, I have experience with other guns with the safety in that position (my Red Ryder, lol). The Mossy tang safety doesn't appeal to me, ruins the lines of the receiver IMO - but I shoot clays, not using it for HD.

 

[gunjunky]

If you like the 11-87 why not get one of those or an 1100 with a shorter barrel. Done deal! There is something to be said for operating controls and manual of arms, being the same.

I use an 1100 for a short shoty and think it works great.