8x56r and H4350 vs ACC4350

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello,

This is the only published load data I've been able to find for the 8x56r. The one manual I think might have it in there is missing. I brought it home and I suspect my kids got it or my wife "put it away."

Whichever, I have limited experience with H4350, having used it only for heavier bullets in the 7.62x54r. I have no experience with IMR4350 or ACC4350. How similar are all these to each other?

The bullets I have are around 208gr and I have H4350. I found near 1,000 primers I forgot I had, and they are large rifle CCI magnums.

Given these components, would you use the 220gr H4350 starting load under the 208gr bullets I have? What effect would this have on the H4350 powder, if any?

Thanks!

Josh

 

[wasa]

Not answering your question, but I found limited data in "Cartridges of the World" (it has IMR 3031 with 198 and 206 gr bullets). I also have a subscription to "Load Data" and found info for W760, H4831, H4895, IMR 4064, and Varget.

Load Data does not list H4350 so I personally would not use it.

YMMV

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Not answering your question, but I found limited data in "Cartridges of the World" (it has IMR 3031 with 198 and 206 gr bullets). I also have a subscription to "Load Data" and found info for W760, H4831, H4895, IMR 4064, and Varget.

Load Data does not list H4350 so I personally would not use it.

YMMV

I'm thinking I want a slower powder for this caliber. Was looking at a burn rate chart the other night.

As far as Load Data goes, I've considered subscribing, but am unsure about them. Where do they find their data? Is it just stuff members work up and submit, or is it taken from manuals?

Thank you.

 

[Slamfire]

Accurate Arms told me they blended AA4350 to the same pressure curve as IMR 4350. Pretty much, that is what I have seen over the chronograph. H4350 originally was blended to the IMR 4350 pressure curve, but I think lately, it is slower by a grain in 30-06 cases.

Use the same data, but start low. If you are loading for a straight pull M1895 Mannlicher keep your loads close to 40 Kpsia.

Cartridges of the World does not address the pressure of the 8 X 56R, but the 8 X 50 R, the precursor for many of the rechambered rifles, was a 40K to 42 K psia round.

As a comparison, some of those M95's were converted to 8 mm Mauser. The 8mm was a bit hotter, and I am sure the trade off was it was OK to injure the occasional serviceman when a rifle lost its lugs, in order to save money. But the 8mm Mauser was not a magnum.

As a reference, from Mauser Bolt Rifles by Ludwig Olson, 3rd edition

German 7.9 mm Model 88 cartridge
Bullet diameter: 0.318”
Bullet weight: 227 grs
Muzzle velocity 2034 fps (29.13” barrel)

German 7.9 mm Model S cartridge
Bullet diameter: 0.323”
Bullet weight: 154 fps
Muzzle velocity 2936 fps (29.13” barrel)
Max pressure: 44,082 psi

German 7.9 mm Model sS cartridge
Bullet diameter: 0.323”
Bullet weight: 198 fps
Muzzle velocity 2575 fps (29.13” barrel)
Max pressure: 46,926 psi

Remarks: muzzle velocity with 23.62” barrel is 2476 fvps

Note, military cartridges were not loaded to an either/or criteria. That is (for the sS) 2575 fps or 46,926 psia. The pressure was a not to exceed. As such was the American experience with the 30-06, which had a 150 grain bullet going 2750 fps with a NTE 50 kpsia. By the 1940's, powder technology had advanced such that M2 ball cartridges loaded to 2750 fps only produced pressures in the lower 40 kpsia.

A good reason not to bump up the pressures to max, was that velocity would have increased (duh) and then all the sight settings on all the weapons using that cartridge would have been off. That's one reason, and a very good reason.

You might be better off using IMR 4064 or IMR 4895 in the case instead of any of the 4350's.

 

[wasa]

I'm thinking I want a slower powder for this caliber. Was looking at a burn rate chart the other night.

As far as Load Data goes, I've considered subscribing, but am unsure about them. Where do they find their data? Is it just stuff members work up and submit, or is it taken from manuals?

Thank you.

It is my understanding that Load Data is a combination of other published data as well as what the Handloader Magazine staff/writers have developed. I've had a subscription for years and I like it. For example, my reloading manuals didn't have Varget for the 300 Savage even though I thought it was a good powder for that round. If memory serves me, Load Data had data. Shot my 2nd Black Bear with that handload.

YMMV