9.3x57 Powder Reccomndations

T

Tokarevsrule

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I'm building loads for my 9.3x57 mauser, I'm using 286 grn bullets trying get them to 2200 fps. I tried using Accurate 4064 powder and maxed out the volume at 47 grns only pushing 2015 fps. Is there a slightly hotter powder that will work well for a caliber like this?
 
Give Varget, 4895 or H4350 a try and you just might hit your target velocity. I would try H4350 first since it's a slower powder and will help you raise velocities without going over pressure.
BTW, why does it have to be 2200 fps?
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Give Varget, 4895 or H4350 a try and you just might hit your target velocity. I would try H4350 first since it's a slower powder and will help you raise velocities without going over pressure.
BTW, why does it have to be 2200 fps?
Click to expand...
according to the original data 2200 is the target velocity for 268 grn. I've tried Accurate 2495, Accurate 4064 and Leverlution powder so far, nothing will get above 2000 fps and that's filling it to where the bullet is compressing the powder.
 
I'd suggest reading the article at this link for suggestions, background, and context on this cartridge:

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/9.3x57+Mauser.html

Here is an excerpt:

"....Although Norma produces 9.3x57 ammunition and have agents worldwide, it is uncommon for agents to import and bear the cost of holding 9.3x57 ammunition in stock which may not sell. For all intents and purposes the 9.3x57 is, outside of Europe, a hand loading only proposition. Fortunately, components are readily available and brass can be formed from 8x57 or even .30-06 cases if need be. Like the .358 Winchester, the 9.3x57 performs well when hand loaded with fast burning powders including H4198 (ADI 2207) through to H4895 (ADI 2206H). H4895 is generally the safest powder for this bore with regards to aged rifles. ADI offer load data for the 250 grain bullet weight (45 grains max) which can be interpolated for other bullet weights by adding or removing 1 grain of powder per 10 grains of bullet weight, added or removed.

From the 24” barrel typically found on Husqvarna rifles, top velocities include 2475fps with 225 to 232 grain bullets, 2375fps with 247 to 258 grain bullets and 2200fps with 286 to 293 grain bullets. From a shorter 22” barrel, velocity loss averages around 50fps. The older the rifle, the more one needs to be mindful of possible metallurgic weaknesses in the action. Having said this, low powered slow killing loads need to be avoided for the sake of game animals hunted. The 9.3x57 has a narrow performance window, losing its ability to produce ‘good wounding’ at impact velocities below 2200fps (becoming more pronounced at 2000fps) with tough premium bullets while conventional bullets tend to suffer poor performance below 1800fps. It should therefore be no great leap to understand that the closer one can get to 2400fps with a 225 to 232 grain projectile, the greater the effective fast killing range will be.

Fortunately this case to bore ratio is not conducive to sudden spikes in pressure as a result of human error such as accidentally using fast burn rate powder with slow burn rate data in the 6,5x55. However, there is a high degree of bolt thrust with these bullet weights.

Apart from semi or fully custom projectiles, the most commonly available lightweight projectiles for reloading the 9.3x57 are the RWS 225 grain Twin Core and the Norma 232 grain Vulcan. Alas, both are now becoming harder to obtain.

Suitable projectiles from Norma include the 232 grain Vulcan and the 232 grain Oryx as previously described. And while one could easily skim over the performance of these two projectiles, there is much we can learn from a close investigation.

The Vulcan bullet was as far as I am aware, originally designed to be used on all Scandinavian game up to the size of Moose. Norma invested a great amount of time into the research and development of this bullet, taking a large number of Moose to prove its merit. When the Vulkan was released, Norma was more than happy with its performance. The Vulkan was a basic cup and core design with a rolled in bullet tip and flat meplat. The bullet dumped energy quickly while the tapered jacket helped to arrest expansion to aid penetration. The Vulkan could not perform miracles but it offered a good balance of expansion, energy transfer and penetration. If more penetration was required, one would simply have to use a heavier bullet and or a more potent cartridge. However as time passed, many hunters forgot or simply misunderstood these finer aspects. When the Vulkan shed weight, it was at times accused of having produced bullet blow up or was simply labelled as being too soft. This led to the tougher Oryx design, a bullet which from time to time ends up as the subject line in my email inbox followed by the words pin hole or pencil wounds, after the sender has used this bullet on animals too lean for its tough core bonded design.

The one true weakness of the Vulkan is that it has a low BC, limiting its effective range. One could dope the Vulkan or adopt magnum power for a flat trajectory, but it always suffered quite severe wind drift. This limitation aside, as a general hunting bullet, the Vulkan was and still remains an outstanding bullet design. But its success relies on realistic expectations.

With a BC of .278 and when driven at a moderate 2400fps, the Vulkan breaks 1800fps at around 200 yards. Kills can be quite spectacular when this bullet is used for general bush / woods hunting medium game. One could try to push this a tad further but any shots taken between 200 and 300 yards need to be taken with great care. At 1800fps, the hunter must aim forwards in an attempt to strike major bones while being mindful of wind drift. As for maximum game weights, this depends on one’s expectations. The Vulkan is soft but it will generally reach vitals on very large bodied deer and antelope with cross body and lightly quartering shots. The Vulkan will not always handle heavily raking shots, but it generally produces very violent wounds, allowing for fast follow up shots. To this end, the answer is - it depends on how one intends to use it.

The Oryx (BC .267) as already mentioned has a short effective range. From a muzzle velocity of 2400fps this projectile breaks 2200fps at around 65 yards after which wounds can be somewhat narrow. At this impact velocity, the Oryx is reliant on game body weights over 100kg (220lb) as a means to aid expansion. At 130 yards, the Oryx breaks 2000fps. From this point on, expansion is ‘hit and miss’. The Oryx can certainly penetrate well when used on tough game however the Vulkan has the potential to produce a wider wound once velocity falls away. A bush / woods hunter might be content to use either. But for those who need to be able to shoot across gullies or river flats, the Vulkan can prove to be a better choice.

RWS have been making 9.3 caliber bullets for a very long time. None have very high BC’s yet all produce good expansion when driven at suitable velocities. Of the RWS range, the 225 grain DK (dual core) is an excellent projectile for use in the 9.3x57, though it has some limitations. The DK sheds velocity quickly due to its .266 BC and has a tendency to produce slow kills with rear lung shots as velocity approaches and falls below 2200fps (between 60 and 90 yards depending on muzzle velocity). The DK generally produces good penetration and free bleeding exit wounds on mid to larger bodied deer with an effective range of around 200 yards (1800fps). Expect caliber sized wounds if using this bullet at 300 yards or 1600fps. Those who wish to shoot game at ranges of between 200 and 300 yards are advised to aim forwards and break bone.

For more information on heavy Norma and RWS bullets, please see 9.3x62 text.

Of the U.S made projectiles, there are not a great many options. The Cutting edge 200 grain Raptor bullet is showing promise, though I have yet to personally test this. I have no true understanding of its game weight flexibility or effective fast killing ranges.

Other U.S made bullets include the 250 and 286 grain Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets, the 286 grain Hornady Interlock, the 270 grain Speer, the 250 grain ‘can’t decide if it wants to expand or hold together’ Nosler Accubond and the 286 grain Nosler Partition. Each have merit in their own right yet none are particularly suited to the 9.3x57. The same can be said of the Woodleigh bullet line up. On lean game, the Interlock and Partition will produce expansion at close ranges, but wounding is mild. Any of these bullets can be loaded for use on heavy game but offer nothing in the way of outstanding performance due to the absence of velocity to initiate wide, disproportionate to caliber wounding. Having said this, all are capable of more than acceptable penetration on large bodied game.

The bigger the animal, the wider the wound needs to be and to make a wide wound, a bullet needs velocity. After witnessing what the 9.3 is capable of with either a good bullet or with increased velocity, I am not all that keen to make excuses for mediocre performance.

To really shine on medium game, the 9.3x57 needs a 225 grain SST (or ELD-X). A 225 grain frangible DRT projectile would be equally useful. Even a basic 210 to 225 grain Interlock would suffice, a hollow point Gameking would also be nice. For large game, a wide and blunt nosed 225 grain core bonded design like the .358 caliber 225 grain Woodleigh round nose bullet could produce excellent performance along with some degree of game body weight flexibility thanks to the trauma inducing meplat profile. Any of these bullets could also prove very useful in the now somewhat popular Tikka T3 9.3x62. Sadly none of these bullet options exist for the 9.3 at this time..."

Looks like you ought to consider using lighter bullets.

Graf's currently shows a limited supply of the 200-grain Cutting Edge bullets.
 
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If you can give me a water capacity to the top of the neck, and the specific bullet your using i can run it thru quickloads and see what comes up. Also are you FEELING compression with 4064, or is that just book max?

also what rifle is this being fired from?
Pressure specs for the 9.3x57 are held to a relatively low max. In a 98 receiver or modern rifle, you could push a little harder with no undo stress on the action.
 
LoonWulf said:
If you can give me a water capacity to the top of the neck, and the specific bullet your using i can run it thru quickloads and see what comes up. Also are you FEELING compression with 4064, or is that just book max?

also what rifle is this being fired from?
Pressure specs for the 9.3x57 are held to a relatively low max. In a 98 receiver or modern rifle, you could push a little harder with no undo stress on the action.
Click to expand...

I can feel the powder being crushed when seating the bullet. With 4064 I'm getting 1950 fps with 47.5 grns

Its a Mauser 96 action, so I don't want to push it to hard
 
Tokarevsrule said:
I can feel the powder being crushed when seating the bullet. With 4064 I'm getting 1950 fps with 47.5 grns

Its a Mauser 96 action, so I don't want to push it to hard
Click to expand...
Ok, let me check again when i get home. Id agree with the earlier suggestion of h4350 class powders tho. Off the top of my had id say RL-17 would likely be one of the highest velocity options, but with more temperature sensitivity than others.

Actually, we might be able to narrow down the field. What powders do you have access to?
 
LoonWulf said:
According to QL and its stock settings, they should both turn out about 2100fps with a 24" tube.
Click to expand...
Well that's shy of the ops stated goal, but I'm not sure if his goal is reasonable. I figured the high energy 500 series might get him close while still being decently stable.
 
AJC1 said:
Well that's shy of the ops stated goal, but I'm not sure if his goal is reasonable. I figured the high energy 500 series might get him close while still being decently stable.
Click to expand...
They do come pretty close, but the major issue is the 40kpsi pressure limit.
I also need more info to do good projections. His stated load of 4064 comes up with 2100ish in QL if i remember correctly. So take all of this with a grain if salt lol
 
LoonWulf said:
They do come pretty close, but the major issue is the 40kpsi pressure limit.
I also need more info to do good projections. His stated load of 4064 comes up with 2100ish in QL if i remember correctly. So take all of this with a grain if salt lol
Click to expand...
I have no idea what the pressure limits are but the old military action is rated for 51k in the Alliant load manual. The case head has to be close in size???? Ima keep looking around to find out more about this cartridge.

"The guys at the nitro express forums have loads of data for the 9.3x57 especially with the Privi Partisan 286 grain round nosed bullet at 45 grains IMR 4895. Remember the original velocity was approximately 2000 feet per second. A slower powder may give you a few more feet per second. But if deer hunting I don't think they will notice. And the max pressure level is 40k. And some of you will be loading that cartridge in the Swedish 1896 action which is a lot less tolerant then the 98 action such as the 148 series. Hope this helps. Frank".....
This leads me to believe 2200 might be a high expectation and 2100 is already upping the game.
 
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AJC1 said:
I have no idea what the pressure limits are but the old military action is rated for 51k in the Alliant load manual. The case head has to be close in size???? Ima keep looking around to find out more about this cartridge.

"The guys at the nitro express forums have loads of data for the 9.3x57 especially with the Privi Partisan 286 grain round nosed bullet at 45 grains IMR 4895. Remember the original velocity was approximately 2000 feet per second. A slower powder may give you a few more feet per second. But if deer hunting I don't think they will notice. And the max pressure level is 40k. And some of you will be loading that cartridge in the Swedish 1896 action which is a lot less tolerant then the 98 action such as the 148 series. Hope this helps. Frank".....
This leads me to believe 2200 might be a high expectation and 2100 is already upping the game.
Click to expand...
Im not sure why the 9.3 is held to 43kpsi, case/case head/bolt thrust are the same as the other x57s, but it is lol.....perhaps because there is also a 9x57 variant.
 
LoonWulf said:
Im not sure why the 9.3 is held to 43kpsi, case/case head/bolt thrust are the same as the other x57s, but it is lol.....perhaps because there is also a 9x57 variant.
Click to expand...
Husqvarna made these guns in in two actions, the model 96 - the Husqvarna model L46 and the M98. I think the M98 has a great deal of potential as it is a 50,000 cup plus action while the L46 is usually loaded to 40,000 cup or less
I'm reading this all on cast boolits not out of a manual so it's unverified
 
AJC1 said:
Husqvarna made these guns in in two actions, the model 96 - the Husqvarna model L46 and the M98. I think the M98 has a great deal of potential as it is a 50,000 cup plus action while the L46 is usually loaded to 40,000 cup or less
I'm reading this all on cast boolits not out of a manual so it's unverified
Click to expand...
Just from spec, the other rounds commonly found in the 96 actions are all 50kish max psi. Loaded like THAT 2200 would be doable.
 
Savage30L said:
What do you plan to hunt with these loads?
Click to expand...

Tokarevsrule said:
I don't, I just want to build some rounds for it.
Click to expand...

Savage30L said:
If you do not plan to shoot game, then, what's wrong with 1950 fps?
Click to expand...
In that case I have to agree with the question, what's wrong with less that 2,200fps? You can check the accuracy for the load by the usual methods instead of trying to hit a velocity number.

ArchAngelCD said:
......
TW, why does it have to be 2200 fps?
Click to expand...

Tokarevsrule said:
according to the original data 2200 is the target velocity for 268 grn. I've tried Accurate 2495, Accurate 4064 and Leverlution powder so far, nothing will get above 2000 fps and that's filling it to where the bullet is compressing the powder.
Click to expand...

The velocities reported in load data are usually inflated. It's rare as reloaders we can achieve the velocities they claim in the manuals.
If you are trying to mimic factory loaded ammo, that if a hard job too. The powder companies have the ability to blend powders to generate the target velocity they want and the ability to test the pressures of that load. We can do neither.

I still suggest you give H4350 or IMR4350 a try and see if you get close to what you are looking for but I would concentrate on accuracy instead of chasing a few fps more.
 
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