9 MM to be 'new' FBI round

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I shot some car doors this weekend. JHP in 9x19mm made small holes. JHP in 45 ACP made really big holes.

Either way, getting shot with either would give me a frownie face.
 
scaatylobo
I understand your reasoning and you are doing what you feel is best to defend yourself, you loved ones, and deal with the what if situations. I have no problem with that. Personally I'd just prefer reloads for my Uberti Cattleman vs. a back up Glock in 9mm. That is based on my own use of a Glock 17 (multiple generations) with first 9mm +P loads and now Winchester Ranger T-Series 127 grain +P+ ammo. I consider myself a much better than average shot with my Glock but no one is perfect especially under the real stress of a life and death situation so I know a less than perfectly placed shot is always a high possibility. 9mm just doesn't do as well against barriers and more importantly against bone. That is why I feel more comfortable with bullet with more mass vs. one that is driven to a high velocity.

9mm +P+ does get the job done unless a bone gets in the way.

If you are shooting 9mm +P+ Ranger ammo then indeed you might as well use .40cal 180grain as it does kick less (thinking Glock 17 vs. Glock 22). I've never understood the logic behind the +P+ ammo I use.
 
One point I failed to make, the non-existant issue of costs when switching calibers. Most agencies periodically replace their weapons without them never even being close to the end of the service life. They trade in the old weapons after the new ones are issued so the costs really are minimal.
 
@ tmwnn

I used to carry the dept load of Black Talons till they changed the name [ P.C. and all that ] to Ranger SXT's.

That also became our .40 S&W round that I am CCW'ing in the G-23 that I do carry now.

I am fond of the GDHP in non +P load as its almost a target load as far as accuracy and it opens well.

We did have a shoot and the LEO used the B/T 's [ in 9MM ] and the expended round with 2 heart shots and one shoulder were amazing to behold [ LOTS of expansion ].THIS WAS PRIOR TO US GOING TO THE .40 S&W.

I am a totally firm believer in shot placement and if the shooter were wearing armor [ ie: Colo ] then the accurate shot and not the 'bone breaker' will be all that count.

I do the "mozambique" or FTS/body armor drill whenever I shoot [ weekly ] and that is now proven to me to be THE shot placement that I might need [ if ever,pray not ].

I bet we could kill a LARGE pot of coffee or a bit of beer over this in person.
 
Oh and agency costs for ammunition is pretty much the same for 9mm and .40.

Government agencies don't pay anywhere near what we pay even buying several cases at a time.
 
^
This is true but as I said, I think a good part of it, were this whisper to transpire, would be because the 9mm universe/platforms is quite broad/rich.
 
scaatylobo said:
A little bird whispered in my ear .

That bird was told from a "source" inside the FBI that the new round will be the 9MM in expanding bullet form.

I see that as a good thing with all the new and very real world 9MM rounds made today.

If this is so,how many of you will follow that band wagon ?.

I am already leaning in that direction,higher capacity and easier to control.

I EDC a .40 S&W as well as a .45 acp .

But own 4 9MM's.

Any who would consider changing IF this comes down the pike ?.
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I don't know if it was ever necessary for them to look at new calibers like the 10mm and .40 back in the 1980's. Maybe they should have thought more about different 9mm bullets. They could have designed a new bullet instead of a new cartridge. The new one would be deeper penetrating. It seems the problem with the wonder-nines in the past was them mushrooming out without enough penetration. If so, I could imagine what happened when bone was hit.

Maybe an improved 147gr may have been the answer. Or a 124gr with heavier copper to slow down the expansion. We have bonded bullets, although I don't know when they came out.

Buffalo Bore has +P and +P+ with high energy figures, so energy doesn't seem to be a problem with the right 'powders. Pure speculation here-not much knowledge with 'powder.

This thread reminds me of some LEO's going from .357 mags to semi-auto's. That didn't seem necessary. 6-shot instead of 15? No problem, just carry speed-loaders and do the necessary practice-live ammo not necessary. Recoil too much? Lighten up the loads, or have both regular and light loads.
 
Model 13's are cool. They are actually pretty good fighting guns.

Bobbed, not 4". (that was my james bondonian fail) lolz
 
I could care less what the FBI carries. What they do has no effect on what I carry. I have always carried a .38 Special or .357 Magnum, sometimes both at the same time or 2 .38 Specials and that won't change. I'm not a LEO so I don't need 17+1 and 2 spare mags. If I were in law enforcement my choices would be different but a J frame and a NY reload suits my needs quite well...

As for the 40 S&W being very popular, that's true but IMO only because law enforcement used them but that's changing. Last year the PA State Troopers switched over from the Beretta 96 in 40 S&W to a Glock in 45 GAP. It's not a test, the whole agency changed over. I don't remember which other states changed too but I think there were 4 additional states that change out their 40 S&W's too in the past year.

IMO all the calibers have their place and need. Many calibers have been around for 100 years and will continue to do a good job for SD, especially with all the new ammo and bullets available for them. The .38 Special SD ammo of today is not your father's .38 Special. lol
 
If this is accurate, it will stir things up on the caliber war front. On the other side, the Marines ordering 1911s. If the SEALs switch to .45, it'll be a poopstorm.
 
Certaindeaf said:
That's fairly true. However, I've shot all kind of critters (from way back to now) with .38, +, and ++.. they all did very well.
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Oh I agree.

My favorite load is the "old" time tested FBI load closely followed by the Speer 135gr .38 Special +P Short Barrel load.

Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Federal and most other ammo companies are all making a quality .38 Special ammo too, in all flavors...
 
The FBI never stopped issuing 9mm ammo.

The FBI still has plenty of agents carrying the SIG Sauer P226 or P228 in 9mm. They even still issue 10mm for the agents that still carry the S&W 1076 10mm.

The FBI went to the 9mm 147 gr. RA9B Winchester Bonded hollow points around early 2008 and later went to what is now the equivalent to the 147 gr. Bonded PDX1.
 
If it's true, and it might be, The driving force is probably the number of non-gunguy types that they hire as agents/researchers that are unable to REqualify with their duty weapons.
These are the computer guys, lawyers, MDs, linguists etc. that the FBI hires as Agents, that almost never go in the field and only use their issue weapons when attempting to qualify. The FBI loses many of these guys each year for failure-to-qualify AFTER multiple attempts. These lost assets cost money to replace. So ADMIN-THINK is probably " Let's use a round that is easier for them to qualify with"
The Agent/Cop types will still carry the 40s and 45s and the office types will be able to qual. with the 9s,
 
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Let's face it the .40 wouldn't have the following it has now (wouldn't exist really) without FBI involvement. If the Feds drop it, especially if they drop it in favor of returning to the 9mm with modern HP ammo, there will be a cascade effect of LE agencies that currently use the .40 following the FBI's lead and dropping back to the 9mm for reasons of training, controllability, and in any agency that standardizes and issues ammo to all members Budget.
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Utter non-sense.

There are plenty of agencies with correct perspective that not everything the military or FBI do is the best thing to follow for them.

There are plenty of agencies that use calibers other than what is the primary issue caliber for FBI.

If people and organizations follow whatever FBI does, then why didn't people and countless agencies rush to adopt the reduced 10mm load FBI was holding on to for a while? Do you think CHP adopted 40S&W in the early 90's because FBI told them to?

Although popularity of 40S&W in law enforcement circles did help with the caliber being common, the desire for shooters to have something more powerful than 9mm in a 9mm size pistols existed for a long time. So, when someone spews non-sense like:"Answer to a question never asked..." in a pathetic effort to feign wisdon, you can safely ignore it. A simple web browsing for just a few minutes will reveal that minds like that of Jeff Cooper and Chuck Taylor were asking that very question which started the 10mm project. Chuck Tayor later stated 40S&W was actually closer to what he had in mind for 10mm.

Individuals asked that question, and so did organizations. As long as there are shooters who want to shoot something more powerful than a 9mm from a 9mm M&P, Glock 9mm sized pistols, the demand for 40S&W is unlikely to die.

40S&W is not going anywhere any time soon, FBI issued or not.
 
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Test, the .40 wouldn't have existed if the FBI didn't ask for it, so I do think the FBI involvement was needed.
 
Some people make calibers out to be some kind of contest about who's right.

To me they're like different sized drill bits, different guns in different chamberings for different purposes.

I bought my first gun - a P7M8 in 1985, an old codger in the gun store piped up "Get a forty five - they got more knock down power."

I like that pistol a lot and I like 9mm because it is a very versatile round. Carl Rohrbaugh showed that a very compact gun can be made to reliably fire this potent caliber. The 45 and 40 don't seem to function well in the small 5 inch-ish package.

I wouldn't go squirrel hunting with it though, or traipse around the Alaskan wilderness with one.

Well anyway, even if this rumor is true - it won't affect me one way or the other.

I was thinking of getting a Charter Arms Pitbull chambered in 9mm though :D
 
To me they're like different sized drill bits, different guns in different chamberings for different purposes.
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Yeah, but most people are asking what's the best sized drill bit for this particular need.
 
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