9mm 124-grain +P ... so good?
- Thread starter CA Raider
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beeenbag
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Brassfetcher.com does a lot of testing, check there.
IBEWBULL
Member
1SOW
Member
This is a little 'dated' but shows the general way of things with modern bullets.
An NRA American Rifleman Magazine had an actually comparison of popular brands , early this year I think.
An NRA American Rifleman Magazine had an actually comparison of popular brands , early this year I think.
do you want me to break the news. OK here goes for the few dedicated enthusiasts who followed this thread.
there is a rumor circulating that the FBI is going to drop .40 cal ammo and go back to 9mm. Supposedly they are happy about the penetration of the 124-gr +P ammo in 9mm, which you can see above. also, they wanted mags with more rounds.
personally I think two things:
a) Maybe this means some agents were having trouble getting good scores with the .40 cal. Do ya' think?
b) I'm glad I went to 45-cal and that chart above shows exactly why.
CA R
there is a rumor circulating that the FBI is going to drop .40 cal ammo and go back to 9mm. Supposedly they are happy about the penetration of the 124-gr +P ammo in 9mm, which you can see above. also, they wanted mags with more rounds.
personally I think two things:
a) Maybe this means some agents were having trouble getting good scores with the .40 cal. Do ya' think?
b) I'm glad I went to 45-cal and that chart above shows exactly why.
CA R
If you like the .45 ACP you'll love the Winchester 45 +P Auto, Ranger "T" Series.
Fifteen inches of penetration in 4 denim protocol, expansion = .78"
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf
Fifteen inches of penetration in 4 denim protocol, expansion = .78"
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf
beeenbag
Member
Where can I find this about the FBI going back to 9mm?
Our local Sheriff's department, about 1k officers, is dropping the 180gr .40 and standardizing issue ammo to the Federal 147gr +P HST. The Range staff that is making the recommendation is made up of street officers and their primary concern is putting the best trained/equipped officers out on the road.
They been collecting data on 9mm ammunition development and don' think they are giving up enough compared to the .40 or the .45ACP, to offset what they are gaining in increased accuracy (for the training allotted) and ability to make of followup shots.
I think you'll be seeing a lot of this in LE circles as the development of 9mm bullets has really made dramatic improvements
NewGuy1911
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Hi 9mmepiphany,
"standardizing issue ammo to the Federal 147gr +P HST"
Having never shot a 9mm pistol and wanting to settle on one or two bullet weights; what are the differences between the above and the 124 +P weight?
Is the 147gr softer/easier to shoot?
When your shooting for fun, which bullet weight do you like. Maybe I should ask, which of these; 124 gr or 147 gr fmj (?).
Kinda understand some skilled sports 9mm shooters think hollow-points are more accurate?
Thanks
"standardizing issue ammo to the Federal 147gr +P HST"
Having never shot a 9mm pistol and wanting to settle on one or two bullet weights; what are the differences between the above and the 124 +P weight?
Is the 147gr softer/easier to shoot?
When your shooting for fun, which bullet weight do you like. Maybe I should ask, which of these; 124 gr or 147 gr fmj (?).
Kinda understand some skilled sports 9mm shooters think hollow-points are more accurate?
Thanks
Luger_carbine
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It is not so much a rumor as a poorly kept secret that the FBI will be switching back to 9mm sidearms.
Testament to the genius that is Georg Johann Luger.
Shawn Dodson
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Excellent info here - http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition
wow6599
Member
I'm not sure about +p (nothing against it), but I like the 124 gr as a compromise between 115 and 147. But I've never had to use any bullet for self-defense, so what do I know......
NewGuy1911
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"I'm not sure about +p (nothing against it), but I like the 124 gr as a compromise between 115 and 147. But I've never had to use any bullet for self-defense, so what do I know......"
Self-defense, last thing on my mind. Hiking, camping,...etc.
I lean towards heavier bullets, not sure why! Not even sure I want to buy hollow-point ammo. As for the +P, tend towards hotter loadings. The 45 Super is calling me.
Self-defense, last thing on my mind. Hiking, camping,...etc.
I lean towards heavier bullets, not sure why! Not even sure I want to buy hollow-point ammo. As for the +P, tend towards hotter loadings. The 45 Super is calling me.
The 147gr has a longer bearing surface and has more potential for accuracy over a 115gr bullet.
For the same energy level, the 147gr can be loaded lighter and will be softer shooting. To be driven at the same speed, the 147gr will have more push.
I personally practice with the 115gr, because it is easier to come by and usually cheaper. Sometimes I'll go with the 124gr, because it functions better in some guns (read Glock) that have ejection issues
They are considered more accurate, because the bottoms of the bullets are more uniform due to how a hollow point bullet is formed.
For work, I always carried Ranger 127gr +P+ in my duty gun...back when they issued it. For personal use, once I run out of the 127gr, I have the Speer 124gr +P Gold Dots
moxie
Member
A nice guy has his own youtube channel with lots of good ammo tests:
http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9
http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9
NewGuy1911
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9mmepiphany, Thanks
Do you shot fmj at the range?
Do you shot fmj at the range?
I do, usually CCI Blazer
Speaking with experience, a non+P 124 grain 9mm Federal HST has no problem at stopping an attacker at 12 feet.
Sometimes I think to much is put on gel tests. Yep, they show you some cool images, and help designers with different profiles during development, but in real life from my experiences of hunting and other shooting, a bullet has several unpredictable factors when it hits living targets.
And in my opinion, and it isn't a popular one, the .40 caliber is just to high of a pressured round for what it is. The 9mm and .45 ACP have been doing a fine job for many, many years.
The only reason we have a 9mm is because the wife shot it better than the .45, and that is what she wanted around the house. I had my reserves about it, but it proved itself a good choice on a rainy day that I had left the wife and daughter at home alone when someone tried to enter the house. Good thing I let the wife choose the house pistol as she was the one put in the most dreaded day we all hope never happens.
Also, my gun will shoot the 147 grain more accurately, and the recoil is much less snappy than the 124 grain or 115 grain. If I had the ability to get the 115 grain +P+ Federal 9BPLE but has a ton more whollop. The 115 grain +P+ Federal 9BPLE round looks about like the .357 Sig if not better in Gel pics I have seen. It is fast out of a 9mm pushing 1400+ fps, and is on point with a 125 grain .357 Magnum half-jacketed hollow point.
Someone mentioned the Gold Dot, Win. Ranger T or HST, and I'd throw in the Federal line of Hydro-Shock (124 or 135 grain), BPLE (115 grain), BPLE +P, BPLE +P+, Remington Golden Sabers in 124 or 147 grain (Bonded, Standard or +P), and Hornady's XTP HP bullets. Any of the OTC hollow points today are proven technology for the 9mm bullet. I have a few police officer friends, and they have seen the old Remington and Winchester Hollow Points do massive damage on shootings they have been called out on. I am not talking about the Golden Saber or Ranger T. Just the basic White or Green/Yellow box of HP factory ammunition.
So which ever your gun shoots, and which ever you are comfortable using should be a good choice for woods or personal defense. That is what they are advertised as. They are advertised as deep penetrating, expanding projectiles. Which is all anyone could ask for out of a 9mm Parabellum.
Sometimes I think to much is put on gel tests. Yep, they show you some cool images, and help designers with different profiles during development, but in real life from my experiences of hunting and other shooting, a bullet has several unpredictable factors when it hits living targets.
And in my opinion, and it isn't a popular one, the .40 caliber is just to high of a pressured round for what it is. The 9mm and .45 ACP have been doing a fine job for many, many years.
The only reason we have a 9mm is because the wife shot it better than the .45, and that is what she wanted around the house. I had my reserves about it, but it proved itself a good choice on a rainy day that I had left the wife and daughter at home alone when someone tried to enter the house. Good thing I let the wife choose the house pistol as she was the one put in the most dreaded day we all hope never happens.
Also, my gun will shoot the 147 grain more accurately, and the recoil is much less snappy than the 124 grain or 115 grain. If I had the ability to get the 115 grain +P+ Federal 9BPLE but has a ton more whollop. The 115 grain +P+ Federal 9BPLE round looks about like the .357 Sig if not better in Gel pics I have seen. It is fast out of a 9mm pushing 1400+ fps, and is on point with a 125 grain .357 Magnum half-jacketed hollow point.
Someone mentioned the Gold Dot, Win. Ranger T or HST, and I'd throw in the Federal line of Hydro-Shock (124 or 135 grain), BPLE (115 grain), BPLE +P, BPLE +P+, Remington Golden Sabers in 124 or 147 grain (Bonded, Standard or +P), and Hornady's XTP HP bullets. Any of the OTC hollow points today are proven technology for the 9mm bullet. I have a few police officer friends, and they have seen the old Remington and Winchester Hollow Points do massive damage on shootings they have been called out on. I am not talking about the Golden Saber or Ranger T. Just the basic White or Green/Yellow box of HP factory ammunition.
So which ever your gun shoots, and which ever you are comfortable using should be a good choice for woods or personal defense. That is what they are advertised as. They are advertised as deep penetrating, expanding projectiles. Which is all anyone could ask for out of a 9mm Parabellum.
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Phaedrus/69
Member
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you about the .40 S&W, Eb1, but I think it's a good round. The 9mm and .45 both do a good job, and the .40 is probably a solution in search of a problem. But since it's out there I don't think it's worthless. Like many people I carry a nine most of the time, a .45 occasionally and don't own a forty. But I probably will pick up a .40 down the road, if for no other reason that ammo availability. Around here no matter how bad the ammo scare there always seems to be plenty of .40 Smith.
The pressure issue is legitimate but probably not a huge deal for a gun designed around the .40 in the first place. I'm leaning towards getting a USP40 because 1) it was initially designed around that cartridge, 2) the double captive recoil springs does a great job of reducing felt recoil impulse and 3) I'm a big USP fan (I currently own three of them and have had two more).
The pressure issue is legitimate but probably not a huge deal for a gun designed around the .40 in the first place. I'm leaning towards getting a USP40 because 1) it was initially designed around that cartridge, 2) the double captive recoil springs does a great job of reducing felt recoil impulse and 3) I'm a big USP fan (I currently own three of them and have had two more).
.357 magnum
Member
Best Penetrating Bullet in a 9mm is 147gr.
Particularly the Winchester 147gr Bonded and 147gr +P bonded. Theses are Especially good in the Winter time up North Here where your Perp is Likely wearing Heavy Clothing. Another Excellent 147gr Round is the Federal 147gr HST-Does NOT Penetrate as Far as the Winchester but Expands a Little Better. The Federal also comes in a HST 147gr +P .
Have a Good One!
Frank
Particularly the Winchester 147gr Bonded and 147gr +P bonded. Theses are Especially good in the Winter time up North Here where your Perp is Likely wearing Heavy Clothing. Another Excellent 147gr Round is the Federal 147gr HST-Does NOT Penetrate as Far as the Winchester but Expands a Little Better. The Federal also comes in a HST 147gr +P .
Have a Good One!
Frank
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