9mm 124 RMR Jacketed Hollow Point *NEW*

[lauderdale]

If anyone is loading these bullet profiles for the CZ/ or wolf conv. barrel 40 to 9 can you throw me a bone? (Or just the new 124g. rmr hp) Im also at a shorter oal to fit in all.1.060/1.065 W/BE86. for extremes 124g fp's/124g.rmr's And a big thanks to you guys/D.Dog KUDO's (Just wondering who might be doing work ups for the shorter say throated barrels?

 

[Dudedog]

Got them today, but had to work late. Hopefully will have some loading time tomorrow.
I think they look pretty good.

 

[longdayjake]

I'm not sure how I missed this thread until now.

So, getting some reports on loading in .357 sig. I have a customer who is trimming his brass to minimum length and he says he can get them to seat at 1.140" with no significant bullet setback. I personally think this bullet should be seated to 1.150" so long as it will fit in a magazine and cycle in your gun. Most magazines these days can handle up to 1.170" in OAL and I have one guy who's saying that works for him. He's really pushing the limits though so he wanted the extra case capacity.

So far, these have been shot at 1500 fps through a 9mm carbine and held together very well. According to our guy shooting them with his carbine, they produce about half the group size of a hornady XTP. He is going to be sending me some load data.

His tests on the 124 FP and 124 HP using CFE Pistol and seated to the same internal depth show a variation of 2 FPS either way. Which is pretty awesome.

 

[vaalpens]

So, getting some reports on loading in .357 sig. I have a customer who is trimming his brass to minimum length and he says he can get them to seat at 1.140" with no significant bullet setback. I personally think this bullet should be seated to 1.150" so long as it will fit in a magazine and cycle in your gun. Most magazines these days can handle up to 1.170" in OAL and I have one guy who's saying that works for him. He's really pushing the limits though so he wanted the extra case capacity.

Thanks for the information and taking the time to add to this thread.

I will be loading these to a max COL of 1.150" and will test out a few this weekend.

His tests on the 124 FP and 124 HP using CFE Pistol and seated to the same internal depth show a variation of 2 FPS either way. Which is pretty awesome.

It will be interesting to see if Dudedog will get the same results since he will also be loading these JHP's with the same internal depth as the FP's.

 

[lauderdale]

Yes thank you. My CZ plunked at 1.110 and they are very accurate w/the load work-up I did. Very nice still have work to do.

 

[longdayjake]

It will be interesting to see if Dudedog will get the same results since he will also be loading these JHP's with the same internal depth as the FP's.

I'm a bit interested as well. I would have thought that they would be further apart because the FN is sized to .356 and has a longer body and shorter ogive. I hope Dudedog's testing shows similar results.

 

[Dudedog]

New HP Picture with some others

Here is a pic with some other bullets to compare with

 

[Dudedog]

OK I was able to get some numbers today.
Springfield 1911 9mm 5"

Mixed range brass, unknown number of reloads S+B small pistol primers,
charges checked for weight then loaded as thrown from Lee Pro disk on Lee turret.


Outside temp 95 F
RMR FNs loaded 1.08 OAL
RMR HPs Loaded 1.11 OAL

(I normally load the FNs to 1.10 but I had a request to test a bit shorter)
.
RMR 124 gr FN 4.5gr CFE Pistol
999.00
1004.00
995.00
1016.00
1009.00

Average 1004.60
ES 21.00
SD 8.26
PF 124.57

RMR 124 gr HP 4.5 CFE Pistol
988.00
984.00
977.00
960.00
987.00

Average 979.20
ES 28.00
SD 11.56
PF 121.42

(looks like I need to bump this load up at leat .2gr)
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
RMR 124gr FN 4.2gr HP38
1049.00
1027.00
1024.00
1036.00
1031.00

Average 1033.40
ES 25.00
SD 9.81
PF 128.14

RMR 124gr HP 4.2gr HP38
1039.00
1022.00
1020.00
1018.00
1026.00

Average 1025.00
ES 21.00
SD 8.37
PF 127.10
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
RMR 124gr FN 4.5gr BE86
1014.00
1013.00
1022.00
1030.00
1010.00

Average 1017.80
ES 20.00
SD 8.14
PF 126.21

RMR 124gr HP 4.5gr BE86
1025.00
1032.00
1037.00
1020.00
1014.00

Average 1025.60
ES 23.00
SD 9.18
PF 127.17
***Had to think about these #s for a minute, possible the HP rounds were in direct sunlight while the FN rounds were not.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
RMR 124gr FN 3.7gr Titegroup
1040.00
1042.00
1031.00
1028.00
1020.00

Average 1032.20
ES 22.00
SD 9.01
PF 127.99

RMR 124gr HP 3.7gr Titegroup
1019.00
1037.00
1031.00
1022.00
1017.00

Average 1025.20
ES 20.00
SD 8.50
PF 127.12
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
RMR 124gr FN 4.3gr WSF
1013.00
1017.00
1031.00
1018.00
1014.00

Average 1018.60
ES 18.00
SD 7.23
PF 126.31

RMR 124gr HP 4.3gr WSF
998.00
1001.00
987.00
1002.00
982.00

Average 994.00
ES 20.00
SD 8.97
PF 123.26
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
No test of the FNs whith these charges
RMR 124gr HP 4.8gr Autocomp
1051.00
1064.00
1036.00
1040.00
1029.00

Average 1044.00
ES 35.00
SD 13.73
PF 129.46

RMR 124gr HP 4.8gr CFE Pistol
1049.00
1063.00
1062.00
1079.00
1055.00

Average 1061.60
ES 30.00
SD 11.26
PF 131.64

So I would say the HPs are a little slower than the FNs given the same powder charge. Not a lot but a bit, which is a concern for those people who need to make a PF.
Nothing wrong with this of course, and it is to be expected with different bullets.
Some of these charges are below the recommended start charge for jacketed but I was comparing them to my plated loads.


I was able to shoot a couple targets from 10 yards (someone else was shooting at 10) then we had to pull back to the line at 15 as other people arrived. Most ammo in this round of test was in the shade. On most of my other tests the #s were from ammo that was in the sun. (no shade on permission use only, but it is nice having your own little "private" range where you can shoot from 0 to 25 yards, but you have to get there early to get it)

I am sure the bullets can do better once
1. I do load work ups for them
2. I am not having a can't hit day (CHS rears it's ugly head)

Load work up results and re-shoot coming soon.

So try not to laugh to hard everyone, I would hate for anybody to fall out of their chair and hurt themselves. ( I almost didn't post these because I was shooting poorly, but I thought everybody could use a good laugh)
Again, I am sure the bullets can do better, I wasn't shooting my controls well either today. sigh......
10 yards unsupported

I also did a quick test of BE86 at outside temp vs out of my ice chest. #s here
http://www.thehighroad.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=9996063

 

[njl]

Is RMR making these (but not much else in the way of jacketed bullets) or did they just find a supply of them?

 

[Dudedog]

Don't know on that. I thought RMR was producing them.
Longdayjake can answer this one.

I think they will be a lot happier at 1050-1100 fps.
I think most of my compare loads were just a tad light for the jacketed HPs.
Most of what I have shot in 9mm has been lead/lead coated or plated.
I started out with lead (had to do it backwards) so I really haven't loaded a lot of jacketed in 9mm in the past due to price.

Note: The above vels also confirm that the S+B primers result in a little lower vel than regular CCI SP primers, in general about 25 or so FPS less.

 

[judgedelta]

I shot some today in my 9mm 1911 with 4.5 grs. of CFE Pistol. Accurate and functioned perfectly. Can't ask for more, except for some in 230 .45ACP...

 

[longdayjake]

They aren't made in house, but they are made for us. We are still working on getting a machine for making them in house though.

 

[Dudedog]

Thanks for the reply Jake.
More tests hopefully this weekend.
Nice bullets and like I said I don't think my first test did them justice because I was shooting poorly and pulled some way low.
Did manage to get a few to touch though.

 

[gamestalker]

I saw those a few days ago and am going to place an order for at least 4 or 5 thousand to split with my sons and wife. Maybe they'll offer me a deal if I just go ahead and order 5k?

My wife saw the pink SCCY CPX2 and just has to have one, and two of my DIL's are getting CPX2's for their husbands, so were gonna need plenty of those JHP's to get those pistols broke in.

GS

 

[Dudedog]

Had to take care of some things so my range plans got changed today.
I did a quick test this morning of a couple more loads.
Among other things my test showed I probably need to switch to decaf before doing ammo tests.

Tested two loads at the indoor range.
7 yards unsupported
4.0gr Promo 1.13 OAL
4.6 WSF 1.13 OAL
(a little longer OAL than my other test)
The 4.6gr WSF load shows promise MAX for WSF is 5.3 so I can still work upwards a bit.
Pulled a couple on the WSF target, someone was shooting a 500 S+W in the lane next to me. It was LOUD!

Gamestalker PM Longdayjake, he might make you a deal on 5000 who knows? Never hurts to ask.
(well at least when your single like me, but I have heard if your married it can hurt to ask )

 

[vaalpens]

I tested some 357sig loads this weekend using the new 124gr RMR JHP's. Even though I had to load these with a higher COL than normal, I did not see any feeding issues and they performed without any problems. These loads were tested at my normal 15 yards using a rest.

I also tested other 357sig loads this weekend. One with a new powder, and another with a new jacketed bullet with similar powder as the RMR JHP's. These other loads tested very well and I saw groupings below 1.5", which is what I expected. The RMR JHP loads all came in over 2". I think I had a reasonable good shooting day, so I probably need to look at the load combination I am using to figure out why the grouping was not that good. I have other powder combinations I need to try before coming to a conclusion regarding using these bullets in 357sig.

The gun I shoot with is a P229, with standard sights. So I normally see my alignment shift left or right if I have flyers, but with this one particular load I saw a grouping I have not seen before. I don't think it is my shooting, so I was wondering if this type of grouping means anything. Maybe it was just me on the day, but it made me pause and think a bit when I saw the following grouping.

 

[Dudedog]

Side note-The RMR 124 FNs are still my favorite bullet for punching paper with 9mm. I don't really need the added expense of any brand of HP for that.
So far in my tests the RMR FNs just shoot better for me. I am not trying to imply there is anything wrong with the HPs just that my pistols seem to prefer the plated FNs.
(which are also less expensive)
I will probably order some more HPs to load some just in case type ammo.
Other guns, other shooters, other loads and of course the results may/will be different.

 

[vaalpens]

Side note-The RMR 124 FNs are still my favorite bullet for punching paper with 9mm. I don't really need the added expense of any brand of HP for that.
So far in my tests the RMR FNs just shoot better for me. I am not trying to imply there is anything wrong with the HPs just that my pistols seem to prefer the plated FNs.
(which are also less expensive)
I will probably order some more HPs to load some just in case type ammo.
Other guns, other shooters, other loads and of course the results may/will be different.

Ultimately these bullets will not be used for punching paper, but they still need to show reasonable accuracy. At 15 yards I will be happy with a grouping around 1.5", and then I will shoot them off-hand at 10 and 15 yards to see how manageable they are. Hopefully I'll be able to do some water jug testing also at some time. Then they will be used as a backup between my premium SD ammo and the practice ammo.

 

[longdayjake]

Here is what they look like after being shot in FBI rated ballistics gel.

 

[vaalpens]

Here is what they look like after being shot in FBI rated ballistics gel.

Thanks for the pictures Jake. The results really look impressive. I now just need to get my act together and find the correct powder combination in 357sig with your bullets.

 

[sellersm]

Thanks for the pictures Jake. The results really look impressive. I now just need to get my act together and find the correct powder combination in 357sig with your bullets.

I'll be looking forward to your results! I've got some Montana Gold to shoot up, then I'll probably get some of these for my G32...

 

[longdayjake]

Vaalpens, I've been told that CFE Pistol works well with them. I haven't yet gotten my hands on any though so I can't personally verify.

 

[Dudedog]

Nice picture, nice expansion.
Need to order some more.
In my testing they did shoot better for me than the Hornady HAPs/XTPs did and are less expensive.
I need to do some more testing when I get the next batch.
Again I had fair to good results in my tests accuracy wise just not as good as I had had with the RMR plated flat nose, but of course the plated FNs won't expand like that! Different bullets, different use.

Then they will be used as a backup between my premium SD ammo and the practice ammo.

This was my planned usage as well.

 

[vaalpens]

Vaalpens, I've been told that CFE Pistol works well with them. I haven't yet gotten my hands on any though so I can't personally verify.

Jake, thanks again for the advice, but I am in the same boat you are. Never have found/used CFE Pistol yet.

I have 357sig loads for the following powders, and will work up loads with the RMR JHP's: Unique(1.02"), Bullseye(1.96"), Power Pistol(1.65"), Longshot(1.49") and BE-86(1.47").

The values in parenthesis are the best grouping I have had so far with these powders @ 15yards. I'll be happy if I can get the grouping around 1.5".

 

[vaalpens]

I have worked up some additional loads using BE-86 and Longshot this week and was able to test them this weekend. The results are better this time and is more in line with what I was expecting. It seems that I was not shooting that well today, but the results were within my acceptable range, so I think I should be able to get even better groupings.

Following are the test results:

357sig, COL:1.150", Speer Trim:.858", RMR 124gr JHP, BE86 7.6gr, CCI500, 1.38" grouping @ 15 yards

357sig, COL:1.150", Speer Trim:.858", RMR 124gr JHP, Longshot 7.6gr, CCI500, 1.45" grouping @ 15 yards