RMR 9mm 124gr JHP in-house bullet - evaluation

[sellersm]

Excellent writeup and test, as always! Thanks! I have been watching your work and waiting results as I'd like to try these in my .357sig loads also. I've found that BE-86 is a great powder: accurate and enough power/speed for expansion. That 7.6gr load looks quite nice...

 

[vaalpens]

Excellent writeup and test, as always! Thanks! I have been watching your work and waiting results as I'd like to try these in my .357sig loads also. I've found that BE-86 is a great powder: accurate and enough power/speed for expansion. That 7.6gr load looks quite nice...

sellersm, thanks for the kind words. I also like BE-86 and it just seems that BE-86 normally delivers a good expansion velocity at about the best accuracy velocity. I have now loaded both 9mm and 357sig with good accurate expanding rounds using BE-86. An the flash suppressor doesn't hurt either.

For my next loads I will probably do a few 9mm loads using BE-86, and then explore some more velocity using Longshot. For 9mm I will be targeting a velocity around 1100fps.

 

[Dudedog]

Cool, Jake and RMR came up with a design that works well in the Sig.
I don't own one but I am sure it will make a lot of Sig owners happy.
Looks like you may have a winner vaalpens, glad they are working well for you.
PS nice write up as always

 

[longdayjake]

FYI, I just got a good load with BE86. 5.9 grains. Expanded perfectly in our ballistics gel.

 

[longdayjake]

 

[longdayjake]

These two were fired from 7 yards through 4 layers of towels. (Sorry, didn't have any denim around)

 

[longdayjake]

Large group of shots tested at varying velocities. They prefer to be shot at 1150 -1250 in a 9mm.

 

[longdayjake]

 

[vaalpens]

Jake, thanks for sharing all your test results. Also thanks for sharing your BE-86 load for these bullets. The load you have listed is very close to the range I will be testing in 9mm. What COL did you use? I am planning maybe a COL of 1.075"

I also noticed that your expansion testing was done at 7 yards. I have never tested from a set distance, but I think it makes sense to always test from a specific distance to ensure results can be compared.

The results you have achieved are very impressive and it compares well with other SD bullets. I know water is not the best medium to test for expansion and most bullets will loose their jackets in water, not only the RMR JHP's. My interpretation of what happens to a bullet when testing in water is that if it looses the jacket, then there is no support for the lead petals, which result in them breaking off at higher velocities.

 

[vaalpens]

Cool, Jake and RMR came up with a design that works well in the Sig.
I don't own one but I am sure it will make a lot of Sig owners happy.
Looks like you may have a winner vaalpens, glad they are working well for you.
PS nice write up as always

Dudedog, thanks for the comments. Your are correct, they work really well in 357sig. The bullets are a great fit, loads well, are very consistent, and is very accurate. The accuracy I saw at 15yards made it to my #4 ranking of all pistol loads I have tested at 15 yards. I will definitely replace the MG bullet with this one going forward.

 

[vaalpens]

I made some time this afternoon to decide on my first 9mm loads, and load them up. Again these were based on previous loads with other bullets and the length of the bullet. Dummy loads were created and a quick plunk, cycle and setback tests were performed. The loads are using BE-86, with a COL of 1.075", from 5.6gr to 5.9gr.

Looking forward to test these out.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

The loads are using BE-86, with a COL of 1.075", from 5.6gr to 5.9gr.
]

Really great posts. I appreciate your time and energy and especially sharing your work with us here. I have been doing some research on BE-86 after reading yours and @longdayjake posts. I also found an interesting article from Shooting Times
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/performance-of-alliants-new-be-86-pistol-powder/

It does not show .357 Sig but it does give good info on 9MM and other calibers. I found the comparison between the 9MM BE-86 and AutoComp speeds really interesting. I have been using AutoComp with great results but I am pushing it up to 5.3 grains and a COL of 1.090 to get the 1147 mark. In the article it shows 5.1 of AutoComp with COl 1.120 @ 1165 FPS using the Nosler JHP. For the same BE-86 load it comes in at 1203 FPS with 5.9 grains.
Looking at the Alliant sight, they have a 124 JHP with 5.9 grains and a COL of 1.12 coming in at 1175 FPS. Jake recommends speeds of above 1100 on the website for best expansion.

I imagine with the shorter 1.075 COL it will pick up some pressure and speed. When I first purchesed my RMR 124 gr JHP's back in December, I reached out to Jake through email for advise on COL. He suggested using the same as the Hornady XTP which is 1.060 for the 124 gr. I was loading Zero 124 Gr JHP's to 1.060 already and I measured the two bullets and the overall length of the RMR was .15 longer so I bumped the COL of my RMR's accordingly to 1.075
In the batch I ran over the chrono I increased the COL from 1.075 to 1.090 to see if there was a difference. I think my next loads will be back down to the 1.075

I am liking the BE-86 load data. I use AutoComp because it is the highest velocity I can find without getting into +P. BE-86 seems to take that one step further and it looks like it might be lower pressure as well and appears to meter weel in the Lee AutoDrum. I like what I am seeing so much that I am going to stop by my local Sportsman's Warehouse in just a little while and pick up a pound and work up a new load. (Just when I thought AutoComp was going to be the final powder) LOL.

Thank you again for sharing all of your hard work.

Hey Jake, I see the 124 JHP's are off the site, does this mean the polisher is ready for the next batch?

 

[vaalpens]

Really great posts. I appreciate your time and energy and especially sharing your work with us here. I have been doing some research on BE-86 after reading yours and @longdayjake posts. I also found an interesting article from Shooting Times
http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/performance-of-alliants-new-be-86-pistol-powder/

It does not show .357 Sig but it does give good info on 9MM and other calibers. I found the comparison between the 9MM BE-86 and AutoComp speeds really interesting. I have been using AutoComp with great results but I am pushing it up to 5.3 grains and a COL of 1.090 to get the 1147 mark. In the article it shows 5.1 of AutoComp with COl 1.120 @ 1165 FPS using the Nosler JHP. For the same BE-86 load it comes in at 1203 FPS with 5.9 grains.
Looking at the Alliant sight, they have a 124 JHP with 5.9 grains and a COL of 1.12 coming in at 1175 FPS. Jake recommends speeds of above 1100 on the website for best expansion.

I imagine with the shorter 1.075 COL it will pick up some pressure and speed. When I first purchesed my RMR 124 gr JHP's back in December, I reached out to Jake through email for advise on COL. He suggested using the same as the Hornady XTP which is 1.060 for the 124 gr. I was loading Zero 124 Gr JHP's to 1.060 already and I measured the two bullets and the overall length of the RMR was .15 longer so I bumped the COL of my RMR's accordingly to 1.075
In the batch I ran over the chrono I increased the COL from 1.075 to 1.090 to see if there was a difference. I think my next loads will be back down to the 1.075

I am liking the BE-86 load data. I use AutoComp because it is the highest velocity I can find without getting into +P. BE-86 seems to take that one step further and it looks like it might be lower pressure as well and appears to meter weel in the Lee AutoDrum. I like what I am seeing so much that I am going to stop by my local Sportsman's Warehouse in just a little while and pick up a pound and work up a new load. (Just when I thought AutoComp was going to be the final powder) LOL.

Thank you again for sharing all of your hard work.

Hey Jake, I see the 124 JHP's are off the site, does this mean the polisher is ready for the next batch?

Ghost In The Fog, thanks for the comments and the COL information you provided.

When it comes to determining a COL, I actually find it easier for 357sig since there is a narrow range to play in. My COL range is between 1.120" to 1.150" and the COL I go with is normally dictated by the bullet shape.

With 9mm I normally have more difficulty in coming up with a COL. You mentioned that you loaded the old RMR JHP's with a COL of 1.075"/1.090". I loaded them in 9mm using BE-86 with a COL of 1.100". A BE-86 5.7gr load gave me 1105fps. and an SD of 3.8. My max load at the time was 5.8gr, but I did not chrono the max load. At a COL of 1.100", my calculated seating depth was .2920", and with the new RMR's and a COL of 1.075", my seating depth will be .2900". With the shallower seating depth I decided to increase my max to 5.9gr and should still be safe. I can probably go down to 1.060" or 1.065", but for now I'll play it safe since I will be around the MAX Alliant published load for 9mm.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Pictures 1 and 2 are Winchester Kinetics 124 Gr. JHP in to water jugs. 1258 FPS Jacket separated and both jacket and core stopped in the 3rd water jug. Expanded to .765 with wonky shape.

Win Kinetics 124 (2)

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

Win Kinetics 124 (1)

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

Pictures 3-5 RMR 124 Gr. JHP (Old style from December) 4.1 and 4.2 Gr. 700X COAL 1.060 1054 FPS Expansion .814 and .700 Fantastic shape and expansion. One stopped in the 4th water jug and the other stopped in the 4th jug as well except it poked a small hole in the back of the jug.

RMR 124 814

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

RMR 124 700

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

RMR 124 (1)

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

Picture 6 is the Winchester and the two RMR

RMR 124 (2)

• Ghost In The Fog
• Mar 8, 2017

I know water isn't the same as ballistic gel and causes jackets to separate, but it is a way for me to consistently test different loads. Any of these would be devastating to Zombies.

I am anxious to hopefully be able to test this Friday with my new powder, BE-86 and hope to get the velocity over 1100 FPS.

 

[Walkalong]

and hope to get the velocity over 1100 FPS.

Looking at Alliant's data, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[vaalpens]

I know water isn't the same as ballistic gel and causes jackets to separate, but it is a way for me to consistently test different loads. Any of these would be devastating to Zombies.

I am anxious to hopefully be able to test this Friday with my new powder, BE-86 and hope to get the velocity over 1100 FPS.

Thanks again for sharing some of your test results. The expansion I saw with the old RMR JHP's using 357sig was similar than with the new JHP's. I never did a water expansion test in 9mm with the old JHP's, but next time I will test both the old and new in 9mm and 357sig. One adjustment I will make is to follow longdayjake's (RMR) guideline and perform the test at 7 yards. The velocities will be around:

9mm Old RMR JHP: 1105fps
9mm New RMR JHP: TBD
357sig Old RMR JHP: 1259fps
357sig New RMR JHP: 1271fps​

 

[vaalpens]

I was finally able to test my 9mm loads. Included in the test today was some Longshot loads in 357sig. The 357sig Longshot loads were just to push the envelope a bit and I did not evaluate accuracy on them.

Following is the chrono numbers from the test. A follow-up post will contain the scanned target(s) for the 9mm load and will also include the water jug tests from 7 yards.

The chrono results again are very good, with all the SD numbers showing single digits. I think the combination of the powder and a very consistent bullet contributes to these excellent chrono numbers.

9mm, SIG SP2022, 3.9"
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 5.6gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1109
ES: 8
SD: 3.6
Force: 339
PF: 137
Velocities: 1110, 1106, 1112, 1106, 1114
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.0"

9mm, SIG SP2022, 3.9"
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 5.7gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1123
ES: 13
SD: 5.1
Force: 347
PF: 139
Velocities: 1132, 1123, 1120, 1123, 1119
Grouping @ 15yards: 1.73""

9mm, SIG SP2022, 3.9"
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 5.8gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1133
ES: 22
SD: 9.4
Force: 353
PF: 140
Velocities: 1145, 1134, 1123, 1126, 1141
Grouping @ 15yards: 2.21"

9mm, SIG SP2022, 3.9"
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 5.9gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1145
ES: 9
SD: 3.3
Force: 361
PF: 141
Velocities: 1147, 1141, 1146, 1145, 1150
Grouping @ 15yards: 1.82"

With the Longshot loads I am not yet at the max load listed by Hodgdon of 9.3gr. I am getting closer to the max velocity, so I will have to inspect my brass very closely and also monitor my chrono data. The ES and SD came down at 8.8gr, so it seems I am still good to increase the charge for the next test. The recoil felt very solid and it was still fun to shoot.

The 1415fps I saw today so far is the highest I have achieved with a 124gr bullet using Longshot.

357sig, SIG P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 8.6gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1342
ES: 45
SD: 16.5
Force: 496
PF: 166
Velocities: 1350, 1340, 1363, 1318, 1342

357sig, SIG P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 8.8gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1397
ES: 31
SD: 12.1
Force: 537
PF: 173
Velocities: 1415, 1390, 1384, 1394, 1403

 

[JimKirk]

I see you are getting "brave" !!! You've broke the 1400 barrier ! Now you are getting into the area the 357 SIG was designed for to begin with .... A .357 Magnum with a 124/5 grain in a Semi Auto that holds more than six shots like a revolver....

The 9.3 grain of Long shot is a good and safe one ... It is what I been shooting lately ...with the XTP ...

 

[vaalpens]

I see you are getting "brave" !!! You've broke the 1400 barrier ! Now you are getting into the area the 357 SIG was designed for to begin with .... A .357 Magnum with a 124/5 grain in a Semi Auto that holds more than six shots like a revolver....

The 9.3 grain of Long shot is a good and safe one ... It is what I been shooting lately ...with the XTP ...

JimKirk, thanks for the words of encouragement. I have been over 1400fps, but this was the highest and the closest I got to a 1400fps average. For the next round I am going to put up a target also just to make sure the bullet holes stay true and there is no tumbling or excess spreading of the grouping. For now I am biting off little chunks at a time and will probably my next loads .1gr at a time. I will take some picture of the resulting primers, but I assume I will see some flattening.

 

[vaalpens]

I have inspected the cases and don't see much flattening of the primers yet. It seems it is safe to increase the charge towards the max for Longshot. With my next test I will shoot at a target to also evaluate how the RMR JHP's are hitting the target.

357sig, SIG P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 8.6gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1342
ES: 45
SD: 16.5
Force: 496
PF: 166
Velocities: 1350, 1340, 1363, 1318, 1342


357sig, SIG P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 8.8gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1397
ES: 31
SD: 12.1
Force: 537
PF: 173
Velocities: 1415, 1390, 1384, 1394, 1403

 

[vaalpens]

The following 9mm load was the most accurate, and also met the minimum 1100fps requirements, thus was used to test expansion in 1gal water jugs:

9mm, SIG SP2022, 3.9"
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 5.7gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1123
ES: 13
SD: 5.1
Force: 347
PF: 139
Velocities: 1132, 1123, 1120, 1123, 1119
Grouping @ 15yards: 1.73"
Expansion test in 1gal water jugs @ 7yards.
Jacket found: 2nd jug
Core found: 3rd jug
Expansion: .5425" (152%)
Weight Retention: 91.05%




The test was performed at 7 yards, with the core landing in the 3rd jug. The same test at 7 yards was performed with the 357sig load, where the core ended up in the 4th jug.

It is obvious that the water is doing a number on these bullets. I think now I understand why they say Phoenix has hard water.

 

[vaalpens]

As promised I also retested the 357sig load, but this time at 7 yards. The result I saw was similar to my previous result. Overall I think I prefer the 357sig load since the core and jacket ended up in the 4th jug, even with the jacket separation. I would love to see the 357sig expansion and penetration in ballistics gel, but unfortunately I don't have any available.

Here are the results for the 357sig load:

357sig, SIG P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 7.6gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1271
ES: 16
SD: 6.1
Force: 445
PF: 157
Velocities: 1278, 1274, 1269, 1274, 1262

Testing medium: 1gal water jugs @ 7yards

Bullet core recovered: 4th water jug

Bullet jacket recovered: 4th water jug

Recovered bullet diameter: .5565” (56.54% increase in diameter)



Recovered bullet weight: 95.2gr (23.23% decrease in weight)

 

[vaalpens]

I have pushed these RMR bullets a little bit more today with two higher Longshot loads. This time I did shoot them into a target just to make sure there is no tumbling, but everything looked normal. These RMR's are holding up well at speed.

I will also inspect the primers when I get time, and will post a picture. No issues were noticed when I picked up the brass, but everything will have to be verified before I step up the charge again.

Following is the chrono numbers for the last two loads I tested:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 8.9gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1400
ES: 29
SD: 10.7
Force: 540
PF: 173
Velocities: 1403, 1386, 1415, 1396, 1404

357sig, P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1422
ES: 36
SD: 14.4
Force: 557
PF: 176
Velocities: 1403, 1413, 1439, 1432, 1424

 

[vaalpens]

Following are some pictures of the target and primers:

The target shows no indication of tumbling or breaking up. The grouping is not a reflection of the performance of the load, but just a result of me shooting at the general direction and just trying to get some holes on paper to look for any discrepancies.



The primers also do not show any flattening, but it seems there were some minor primer cratering, mostly visible on the primers on the left with the lower charge.

 

[vaalpens]

I have pushed these RMR bullets a little bit more yesterday with two higher Longshot loads. This time I used my range bag as a rest and had dedicated targets for each load. This was not an accuracy test, but rather a velocity test with accuracy as secondary. These RMR's were holding up well at speed.

I will also inspect the primers when I get time, and will post a picture. No issues were noticed when I picked up the brass, but everything will have to be verified before I step up the charge again, if I want take it any higher. Time will tell.

Following are the chrono numbers for the last two loads I tested. I have also included the target for the 9.1 load since I thought the accuracy was excellent at this velocity:

357sig, P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9.1gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1425
ES: 46
SD: 20.1
Force: 559
PF: 176
Velocities: 1435, 1406, 1403, 1449, 1435
Grouping: 1.34" at 15 yards


357sig, P229, 3.9"
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, Longshot, 9.2gr, SBPRSP
Average: 1444
ES: 53
SD: 21.1
Force: 574
PF: 179
Velocities: 1436, 1413, 1466, 1447, 1460
Grouping: 1.63"+ at 15 yards (only 3 measured shots with 2 off the target)