9mm 147gr Winchester "Notched" JHP

[Palladan44]

Any load data for this 147gr projectile?
Any word on its terminal performance?
Fastest speeds published for 147gr rounds in general for 9mm are right around 1000fps.
I have a lot of these im about to tap into.
Word is that these are what winchester factory loads in their WWB offering for Personal Protection.

 

[fxvr5]

They are about the same length as some other jacketed/plated 147s, so you could start with their data.

Berry’s 147 RN .669"
Hornady 147 XTP .660"
Winchester 147 JHP .668"

 

[brewer12345]

Winchester "White Box" 147gr JHP in Clear Ballistics gel. | The High Road

Looks like good expansion and penetration in gel at a touch over 900 FPS.

 

[rfwobbly]

Be warned... not all 147gr bullets can be loaded in all 9mm guns.

 

[Palladan44]

Be warned... not all 147gr bullets can be loaded in all 9mm guns.

Interesting. Is there an issue with OAL and FTC?
I think my Kahr K9 doesnt like these, but i tend to keep away from 147 grainers in smaller guns with shorter barrels anyways. Any other info you have id appreciate.

 

[rfwobbly]

Interesting. Is there an issue with OAL and FTC?
I think my Kahr K9 doesn't like these, but i tend to keep away from 147 grainers in smaller guns with shorter barrels anyways. Any other info you have I'd appreciate.

• Each bullet has a highly individual maximum OAL in each barrel. That is, the cut of the chamber restricts the maximum cartridge length. That length is a unique product of how that bullet fits in that barrel.
• The remainder of the bullet (which is not projecting into the chamber) must be seated into the case. There's only those 2 places for the bullet to exist.
• However, due to the thickening case wall, people forget that there is also a minimum OAL the case will accept before it starts to bulge.

Therefore, the barrel, bullet and case all bring physical limitations to the marriage that need to be recognized and managed.

Here's a cartoon to explain...


Bottom line is this: You could have loaded 115gr and 124gr for years with no issues, but the longer 147gr might have trouble immediately.
I'm not saying you will. I'm alerting you to the possibility.
.

 

[Palladan44]

• Each bullet has a highly individual maximum OAL in each barrel. That is, the cut of the chamber restricts the maximum cartridge length. That length is a unique product of how that bullet fits in that barrel.

Bottom line is this: You could have loaded 115gr and 124gr for years with no issues, but the longer 147gr might have trouble immediately.
I'm not saying you will. I'm alerting you to the possibility.
.

Very interesting I did not know this!
I assumed that because a 9mm is a parabellum case that the bulging was less likely to occur the further the bullet was seated into the case.
Like Ive done so many times before, Im wiping my bee-hind with my presumptions!
I learn so much on this thread. Thank you

 

[brewer12345]

I plan to play with this bullet in 9mm and 350 legend this summer. Should be especially interesting in the latter.

 

[jmorris]

people forget that there is also a minimum OAL the case will accept before it starts to bulge.

Also worth not forgetting are the stepped cases often designed to be used with lighter bullets and have a reduced internal volume as well.

 

[Palladan44]

Also worth not forgetting are the stepped cases often designed to be used with lighter bullets and have a reduced internal volume as well.

View attachment 984351

Wow. Even in 9mm luger?
I always wondered about Federal Nickel plated cases and the cannelure that is stamped on the exterior of the brass. This often appears on different heights along the case ranging from 1/2 way up the case to 3/4 the way up the case. I wonder if this has anything to do with seating depth of bullets or stepped brass.

 

[jmorris]

Wow. Even in 9mm luger?

Yes, a good powder check die will catch them without taking a gander into every case though.

 

[rfwobbly]

Very interesting I did not know this! I assumed that because a 9mm is a parabellum case that the bulging was less likely to occur the further the bullet was seated into the case.

The issue stems from another reason... the case was developed in 1903, but the 147gr bullet wasn't developed until ~1980 (?) when sub-machine guns needed a subsonic round to use with suppressors. Those guns have generous chambers which easily accept the 147gr. But then pistol shooters started using them in "tight chambered" target pistols.

Don't forget that there are also wide variations with the internal dimensions of brass. If you run into this issue, then getting highly selective about your brand of brass can also help.

If your pistol turns out to be in the "highly selective" group, then dropping back to 135gr usually cures a host of issues. You'll need to look under "38Super" to find these bullets from Berry, Missouri Bullet, and others.

 

[fxvr5]

I don't think I've run into any 147s that wouldn't fit. Some heavier bullets might have that as a concern, though there are several companies that use 158 and heavier bullets in factory loads.

factory: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/8/6/heavy-9mm-luger-bullets-everything-you-need-to-know/
handloading: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-heavy-bullets-in-9mm-luger/99514

Some 147s have a tapered base to reduce the chance of it bulging brass.

The Winchester 147s have a fairly long ogive which means you can load them to fairly long OALs and still fit in most barrels. A plunk test will tell you what OAL you can use.