9mm and 158 gr. cast

[floydster]

Guys, in my old Lyman #44 manual it lists a load for the 9mm and the 158 gr. cast bullet #358311.
Starting out with 3 grs. Bullseye and max grains at 3.5.
I loaded up 10 rounds using the Lee 158 gr. SWC, the bullet just barley contacts the powder according to my measurements, just wondering what you think---I don't want to blow up my CZ, and I just wanted to try something different
Thanks for input. Floydster

 

[rcmodel]

The one on the left looks like maybe you might have a case bulge at the base of the bullet?

Will they drop in and fully chamber O.K.?
Will they feed without bullet nose damage?

If so, the 3.0 - 3.5 Bullseye loads should be perfectly safe.

rc

 

[floydster]

rc, I used my barrel as my gauge, and they dropped in the barrel just fine and they feed ok also. The cases don't really have a noticable bulge, I sized the bullets to .357, and I didn't use any crip.
I am using 3 grs. Bullseye and the old manual has this listed as most accurate--- it is strange the new Lyman manual doesn't list a 158 gr. for the 9 mm.
Thanks for your reply, very much appreciated.
Floydster

 

[Walkalong]

Interesting.

 

[rcmodel]

I found your loads in my Lyman #47 manual too.

rc

 

[floydster]

The old # 44 manual lists the 358311 bullet dropping at .360 with Lyman # 2 alloy and says in the bullet data that it is great in the 9mm, go figure.
In my casting I am using 50/50 pure lead and wheel weights with a splash of tin.
For lube I'm using 45/45/10 and tumble lubing in a baggie, which works better then in a tub of some sort. The TL has been working great in my .38 Spl, 38 Super, .357 mag and my 45ACP. I TL before sizing and TL after, then load.
Leading has been held to a minimum.
Floydster

 

[918v]

You decided to use the heaviest bullet with the fastest burning powder???

Get QuickLoad and take a look at that pressure curve. You might want to rethink what you're doing.

 

[RidgwayCO]

If you'd like a pressure estimate with QuickLOAD, COL used and the length of the bullet would be very helpful. A change of only 0.01" (1/100th of an inch) in COL can make a big difference in such a small case, especially with a heavier-than-normal bullet.

 

[ironhead7544]

I load the 160 gr lead bullets meant for the 38 Super in my 9mm loads. I use A#2 powder. You should probably use the Lee Factory Crimp die as some cases will bulge a little due to the bullet length. I was looking for a cheap practice load for a G17 with lead bullets. Dismal accuracy until I tried the 160 gr slugs. I also have that Lyman manual. I found some A#2 load data and since I had some of that powder on hand I tried it. Worked up a load just powerful enough to work the action 100%. Shoots into 3 inches at 25 yards which was fine for practice. Has worked in a number of 9mm handguns, carbines and SMGs with no problem and very low recoil. I clean the Glock barrel every 100 rounds just in case but never had a leading problem.

If I had to use the 9mm for hunting I think I would use a bullet like yours and load it to the max of about 1000 fps.

 

[fecmech]

From my notes with a Browning Hipower:

2.8/ bullseye/158 H&G RN/.358--892 FPS---Not accurate
4.0/Longshot/"" "" / .358---926 FPS--accurate ( 4.4 grs=1000 fps)
3.3/Longshot/ "" "" /.358---823 FPS---accurate
All were loaded to an OAL of 1.110 which was the longest I could seat them and still get to chamber. There was no published data for these loads, just something I worked up on my own. For your information only.

 

[918v]

How did you determine they were safe?

 

[floydster]

RidgwayCO,
The length of the bullet is .665 and OAL of the round is 1.035
Any info would be helpful, thanks.
Floydster

 

[918v]

Your listed OAL does not jive with your pics.

 

[floydster]

Hummm. 1.035. Thanks 918v

 

[RidgwayCO]

ADDED: Floydster, if you are actually using a COL of 1.035" (as illustrated by your photo), then STOP IMMEDIATELY! Even at 3.0gr of Bullseye, your pressures are WELL ABOVE SAAMI limits for the 9mm Luger! They are even above +P pressures! The computed pressures for the 3.5gr load are more than twice the SAAMI limits for +P! You just can't change the COL of the 9mm Luger by .100" inch and not expect dramatic (and possibly fatal) results.

(Data deleted due to change in COL)

 

[Clark]

I have been shooting .358" 158 gr LSWC bullets in 380, 9x19, and 9x23 with Power Pistol.
There is no real difference between that and a .357" 158 gr XTP jacketed bullet.

But to get my Kel-Tek P11 to take the .358" 158 gr LSWC at 1.169" OAL and chamber without high starting pressure, I had to alter the chamber throat to be longer and larger diameter to accommodate the bullet.

 

[floydster]

Ridg, this SWC bullet I had to set back to the 1.035 to clear the short lead on my CZ's,this is what I am really concerned about having the bullet that far back in the case,however even that far back, with 3grs. Bullseye the bullet doesn't quite come in contact with the powder.
I sized to .357 and the bullet sure is tight in the case, gulp, don't know if I should try these or not---I only loaded 10 of them.
According to other forums, guys have tried this load without any probs.
Thanks,Floyd

 

[RidgwayCO]

floydster, I just recomputed the loads with a COL of 1.035", and you need to STOP LOAD DEVELOPMENT! The maximum load QuickLOAD computes for a COL of 1.035" is 2.5gr of Bullseye. 3.0gr develops over 54,000 psi of pressure, and 3.5gr develops almost 85,000 psi! These pressures can disassemble a pistol in your hand, and maim or even kill you! PLEASE ADVISE THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SHOOT THESE!

 

[floydster]

Ridg, thanks so much for your time and effort helping me, and no, I will not shoot these rounds---this is the info I needed.
Thanks again so very much!!!
Floydster

 

[RidgwayCO]

Thanks for letting me know, floydster. I was kinda stressed out there for a minute...

 

[floydster]

Ridg, I am 75 years old and have been reloading for 60 of those years, and still learning.
Thanks again bud.
Floydster

 

[zxcvbob]

Bullseye is actually a good choice, but you should only be using 2.5 grains. The problem is you are seating the bullet too deep. If you could set the OAL to 1.135" you could use 3.5 grains and have a much better load.

Do not fire the cartridges you made. Tear them down immediately.

ETA: looks like we were all typing at the same time.

 

[Gatofeo]

Back about 1976 I was shooting Speer 158 gr. lead roundnosed bullets in my wartime Walther P-38. Accuracy was better than with jacketed bullets.
Later, I slugged the bore and found it was .359 inch!
I recall using either Unique or Bullseye with those lead bullets in the ol' P-38. It functioned fine with that bullet, and with the Speer 158 gr. lead semiwadcutter too.
I haven't fired my P-38 in many years. My Browning Hi-Power replaced it as my shooting 9mm.
Nothing wrong with 150 to 160 gr. lead bullets in the 9mm. I'd avoid using jacketed bullets of the heavier weight; with more friction they would generate higher pressures and you always run the risk of getting one stuck in the barrel from low velocity.
I would think that the 158 gr. lead semiwadcutter would make a fine rabbit and small game load. For smaller game, such as squirrels, the lead roundnosed bullet wouldn't destroy as much meat.
If you carry a 9mm in the woods, might make a good meat-getting load. Might be a good idea to carry a magazine full of such loads, for a quick changeover.

 

[918v]

I am really concerned about having the bullet that far back in the case,however even that far back, with 3grs. Bullseye the bullet doesn't quite come in contact with the powder.

That's not something you should even worry about. Some loads are OK compressed. others are not. There is no hard rule that the bullet is not to contact the powder. It all depends on the application.

Generally, in high pressure applications, you should not load fast burning powders under heavy for caliber bullets in small capacity cases. The pressure curve will be too abrupt and you risk blowing the case or piercing primers at the very least.

 

[918v]

Nothing wrong with 150 to 160 gr. lead bullets in the 9mm

It is if your OAL is 1.035" and you're using Bullseye.