9mm Case Guage Rejects!
- Thread starter MtnCreek
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1SOW
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GLOOB:
The drop in test includes rotating the cartridge. The barrels' chamber will reliably function as gages .
The drop in test includes rotating the cartridge. The barrels' chamber will reliably function as gages .
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The undersized die wouldn't fix some cases either. As posted before, the cases were bulged down far enough towards the case head that the die/s simply cannot reach the bulge. That is why I have repeatedly posted that I feel that brass has been overstressed and I scrap it.
Who ever said it would?
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MtnCreek
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My original posting indicated an overall 15% failure to gauge. This needs to be revised to approx. 10%. Following advise from rfwobbly and Sport45, I have found that some of my failures to gauge were attributable to burrs on the rim. I still have a problem with bulged cases, but Midway should have my Lee FCD sitting at my house in a couple of days. I will let everyone know if this fixes my problem.
If the problem persists, I will likely try modifying either the die or shellholder to allow sizing further down the case. My Dillon sizer has a slight lip of steel that extends below the carbide; not sure how much I would gain by removing this, but it is something I could do myself. If I need to modify the shellholder, I'll probably have a machine shop do it. The Dillon 650 shellholder is pretty thin and there are 5 surfaces that will need to be surfaced to the same thickness; I think this would be way beyond my capabilities.
The brass I'm using is from over preasure factory loads. In its past life it was Speer Lawman 124 gr Gold Dot's.
If the problem persists, I will likely try modifying either the die or shellholder to allow sizing further down the case. My Dillon sizer has a slight lip of steel that extends below the carbide; not sure how much I would gain by removing this, but it is something I could do myself. If I need to modify the shellholder, I'll probably have a machine shop do it. The Dillon 650 shellholder is pretty thin and there are 5 surfaces that will need to be surfaced to the same thickness; I think this would be way beyond my capabilities.
The brass I'm using is from over preasure factory loads. In its past life it was Speer Lawman 124 gr Gold Dot's.
I use a Redding 9mm sizer with a RCBS shell holder that I sshaved .030" off the top. It sizes the case to withing .1" of the extractor groove. I have sized brass fired as many as 30 times using this die without any issues.
I have resized +P+ and proof-level brass without any bulges either.
I have a feeling the 15% reject rate is due to short stroking the press.
Hagen442
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Lee Factory Crimp Die
I use a 650, and has previously stated the FCD will take care of the Glock Belly.
I use a 650, and has previously stated the FCD will take care of the Glock Belly.
Well then we are talking apples and oranges. That would obviously make a big difference.
Perhaps for some folks.
Since I am sizing on the LNL it would not be as easy to "take a little off" the 5 spots in the plate, so I will just continue to toss any rejects.
Tried the steel Redding FLS die. No better.
Also tried the Lee kit where the case is hammered into the die all the way. Also no benefit, probably because it's not a proper FLS die.
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MtnCreek
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Problem solved! I removed excess steel from my sizing die to the point where it is almost flush with the carbide. Loaded 1,000 rds this weekend with 99% passing a case gauge. The only failures to gauge were caused by extraction marks on the rim.
Someone pointed out they had done this with another brand of die and the carbide insert came loose. This has not happened to my Dillon sizer (at least not yet).
As advised, I ordered a Lee FCD. I have not used it yet, but I will likely try it out this week. The Dillon crimp die makes a good crimp; the only problem I have with it is that a very small amount of brass is 'rubbed off' when crimping. After a few hundred rds are loaded, I get a film of fine brass in the cart. bin. Maybe the Lee FCD will eliminate this.
Thank you all for your help.
Someone pointed out they had done this with another brand of die and the carbide insert came loose. This has not happened to my Dillon sizer (at least not yet).
As advised, I ordered a Lee FCD. I have not used it yet, but I will likely try it out this week. The Dillon crimp die makes a good crimp; the only problem I have with it is that a very small amount of brass is 'rubbed off' when crimping. After a few hundred rds are loaded, I get a film of fine brass in the cart. bin. Maybe the Lee FCD will eliminate this.
Thank you all for your help.
rfwobbly
Member
These "rim issues" can be easily separated from "case issues" by simply inserting the questionable case in the gauge up-side-down. When you do that only the rim is being checked.
When extractors mess up the rims, then it might be time to check the extractor fit and function.
rfwobbly
Member
There are "case gauges" and "cartridge gauges". The former checks only the case; the latter checks the completed round. The delivered price is about the same for either. I highly prefer the "cartridge gauge".
You can get these at Midway, Dillon, and any other big reseller.
ny32182
Member
I changed my process to gage every completed round after having a round of .40 fail to chamber once.
The first pictures are exactly what happens to me when it is a burr on the rim causing the issue. The other picture with the whole casehead sticking out is what happens when bulged brass is the issue.
Normally about 6% of my completed rounds fail to gage, and the vast majority of those are due to rim burrs. Rim burrs will not keep the round from chambering. They can be caused by a variety of things from the extractor, to landing on concrete, to just being stepped on in ground that has any rocks at all in it.
I take my 6% "rejects", and chamber them in my pistol. When the die is set up right, the "rejects" chamber 100% of the time so far. If I was loading for multiple pistols I would chamber them in my tightest pistol and then call it good.
I agree that flipping the cartridge over and seeing if the rim will go into the gage is a foolproof way to prove whether or not the rim is the issue. I've done that myself as well...
The first pictures are exactly what happens to me when it is a burr on the rim causing the issue. The other picture with the whole casehead sticking out is what happens when bulged brass is the issue.
Normally about 6% of my completed rounds fail to gage, and the vast majority of those are due to rim burrs. Rim burrs will not keep the round from chambering. They can be caused by a variety of things from the extractor, to landing on concrete, to just being stepped on in ground that has any rocks at all in it.
I take my 6% "rejects", and chamber them in my pistol. When the die is set up right, the "rejects" chamber 100% of the time so far. If I was loading for multiple pistols I would chamber them in my tightest pistol and then call it good.
I agree that flipping the cartridge over and seeing if the rim will go into the gage is a foolproof way to prove whether or not the rim is the issue. I've done that myself as well...
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