Is some brass just not resizable?

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Balrog

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
3,206
I have been loading a large batch of 10mm brass, most of which was fired in a Glock 20. I am resizing using a Dillon sizing die. I would estimate about 1 out of every 100 pieces of brass do not fit into an L.E. Wilson case gage after being sized. Curiously, if a piece of brass does not fit into the Wilson case gage, it will fit into a Dillon case gage about 25 percent of the time.

Even if I run these pieces of brass through the sizing die a 2nd time with the sizing die about a half turn lower, they still won't pass into the gage.

I have run some of them through Lee and Hornady sizing dies, and still they won't fit the gage.

So why would a piece of brass sized through a couple of different sizing dies still not be able to fit the case gage?
 
Most pistol sizing dies, particularly those made for progressive presses, have a taper built into them at the mouth of the die to facilitate the rotation of the press and feeding into the various dies in the process. This tapered area doesn't size the brass, and the Dillon dies I have all have more taper at the mouth of the die than most others do.

There are methods to size the rimless brass the whole length. One is the Magma Case Master Jr., which I have. It's an arbor press that pushes the case entirely through a sizing die and sizes even the rim. http://magmaengineering.com/products/case-master-jr-rimless-case-sizer

Redding has introduced their die for this purpose, and Lee has just come out with their solution.

I can run any 10mm size case (.40 S&W, 357 Sig or 10mm Auto) through the Case Master Jr. and it will be back to factory minimum specs when it drops out the bottom of the sizing die. If you don't want to go to the expense and effort of doing this for the few brass you have that won't fit back into the chamber, then just scrap them.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Even if I run these pieces of brass through the sizing die a 2nd time with the sizing die about a half turn lower, they still won't pass into the gage.
Click to expand...

But do they chamber in your gun?

Lee make custom sized push through sizers for lead bullets, they would also work for brass cases, if you need to reduce case extreme diameter to 0.417"-0.419" or whatever.
Just a thought.

But if they still chamber in your gun without issues, I wouldn't sweat it too much.
 
BDS
As long as Glock continues to make loose chambers, we'll have to deal with "the brass" or not buy once fired brass. Buying new or loaded ammo to get brass has got out of reach of those who like to shoot very much. Not every body who owns a Glock has or will change their barrels to an after market barrel that you advocate, its just not gonna happen.

I agree that a "Sticky" would be a good idea, however the solutions would need to be condensed rather than the long "discussions" that have taken place on the matter. But then you would still have the same questions asked regardless if there is a sticky or not.

I just purchased 200 nickeled 357 SIG brass recently, the primers were punched with a round firing pin, so they could not have been fired in a Glock. However when I sized them I noticed that faint line of the brass not going up into the die far enough. That caused them not to chamber in my tight Glock chamber. So I sprayed them with some lube and sent them thru the G-Rx ... Problem solved.

Jimmy K
 
Not every body who owns a Glock has or will change their barrels to an after market barrel that you advocate, its just not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I just purchased 200 nickeled 357 SIG brass recently, the primers were punched with a round firing pin, so they could not have been fired in a Glock. However when I sized them I noticed that faint line of the brass not going up into the die far enough. That caused them not to chamber in my tight Glock chamber. So I sprayed them with some lube and sent them thru the G-Rx ... Problem solved.
Click to expand...

Looks like push through sizing dies are here to stay.
 
I wasnt really looking for an explanation as to how the cases got bulged, as much as I was looking for a reason why a sizing die didnt take them back to minimum specs.
 
IMO the dillon pistol gages suck. It's like they picked the closest drill bit in size and called it good enough. The wilson's are too tight, not in the case part (although they are on the tight side, but that's why you are checking right), but on their expectation of bullet diameter, max OAL.

I like EGW the best.

As for the glock bulge, yes it can make some cases not fit a gage after loading. 10mm isn't as bad as .40 but it can still happen.

One of the things that can bite you is poor concentricity. Using a lee FCD, sometimes putting it back in pull, rotate 90 degrees, pull, and you get back something that now passes the gage.

Now I run all my .40 through a redding grx die before loading. EGW u-die for resize and deprime, and a dillon taper crimp die for the crimp (lee FCD was not playing well with moly coated lead and was undersizing them, but FCD worked well for jacketed).
 
The wilson's are too tight, not in the case part (although they are on the tight side, but that's why you are checking right), but on their expectation of bullet diameter, max OAL.
Click to expand...

raz, could you expand on this a little? What do you mean the Wilson is too tight in its expectation of bullet diameter and OAL?
 
The wilson is at the tighter end of sammi specs for the brass. Which is fine, as the point of a case gage is to reassure yourself that your ammo will fit in the chamber of your gun, and meeting minimum specs does that.

However, you will find that .40 bullets run from .400 -.402". At least in my experience, they have, with most jacketed being .401. Sammi max length for .40 is 1.135" OAL. The wilson gage (all gages actually) has, appropriately, a step down where the case rim should stop. Above the step, it should be in spec for the brass diameter, below that, it should be in spec for the bullet diameter. I load to 1.130 nominal OAL for .40, and round nose, round nose flat point, and basically everything but truncated cones, the loaded cartridge hangs up on the ogive on the step. This is pretty much useless.

I've seen a number of people run into this problem in a number of calibers with the wilson case gages. (9mm, 38 super, and .40 S&W. multiple examples of each).

The EGW gage is cut wit a clymer chamber reamer, and does not give me headaches unless I am loading long for use in my 2011. I can't blame it for that as OAL is way past sammi specs, and I'm using coated lead bullets that vary between .402 and .403.
 
Hmm... interesting. I recently got into .40 loading and am currently experiencing a problem where my sized cases drop into the Wilson gage with no problem, but the loaded cartridges (Precision Delta 180gr) consistently hang up with the extractor groove still exposed. I left it at that on my last sample batch and examining the exact reasons for this is on my to-do list for the next iteration. They all drop right into my G23 barrel, so I figured they would be safe to shoot in that barrel anyway.

I have not actually checked the diameter of the bullets.

I do not have the same problem with 9mm; the rounds loaded with PD 115gr drop into the Wilson gage.
 
Just a thought. Are the dies worn? Perhaps you can take measurements after you size them. If they are worn, may be you can see if other newer dies (if you have other reloaders) give you the same problem.

IMHO

Ny32182, try adjusting your taper crimp setting - flaring may not be pressed back in to rub the gauge after seating the bullet.
 
I defy any hobby reloader to wear out a sizing die. I've got some that I've been using since the early 1960's, and have sized thousands and thousands of rounds, that are still not worn. If anything, a die could be made at the high end of the specifications when first made, which does occur, as evidenced by the various sizing dies I have of the same calibers with different diameters.

Most sizing dies don't size far enough down the case wall to completely eliminate all swelling of the case after firing. Some are worse than others and some are better. The flaring at the die mouth is done on purpose. Without some amount of radius at the mouth of the die, they would shave brass, rather than resize it. I have one die in 9x19 caliber that does shave brass, and it's from a major manufacturer.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I defy any hobby reloader to wear out a sizing die.
Click to expand...

ReloaderFred, I was trying to cover all basis. Some have posted that they take steel wool to rusty steel dies. Since he did not mention the condition of the die, I was just asking.

I am using Lee carbide dies I bought in 1995 with great results still after several hundred thousand rounds! :D
 
bds,

Even steel wool won't wear a hardened steel die, and certainly wouldn't hurt a carbide die. Most lightly rusted dies can be restored by disassembling them and running them in the tumbler for a few hours, which will remove the surface rust.

Dies that scratch, or gall, brass, can be restored with the use of Flitz or J-B Bore Polish and a soft tight fitting swab made from an old T-shirt on an arbor, and run for a couple of minutes inside the die with a drill motor, as long as the swab isn't allowed to run dry. I've restored many, many sizing dies with this method (borrowed from Varmint Al's webpage) and none of them have been enlarged enough to read with a highly accurate micrometer.

There is a lot of variation in sizing dies, though, even from the same manufacturer. As the reamer wears, the inside diameter of the die will decrease. A die cut with a new reamer will be larger in diameter than a die cut with the same reamer just before it's retired. Both dies will be within the parameters for the caliber, but at opposite ends of those parameters.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I have three .45 ACP sizers. They are all .002 apart from each other. One is too big for use with thin Remington brass, one is just about right for any brass, and one is pretty danged tight with most brass. Offhand I don't remember the measurements.

I had one sizer that shaved brass a bit. It sure is a b***** taking a "sharp" edge off of a carbide insert. Mighty tough stuff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Brass, Wilson gage or re-sizing die issue?
Replies
13
Views
752
1SOW
1
L
  • Locked
9mm case gage
Replies
15
Views
1K
rfwobbly
rfwobbly
M
  • Locked
Trouble Resizing .223 Brass
Replies
20
Views
3K
br6ad
B
G
  • Locked
Decapping and Sizing 223 Problem Need Help!!
Replies
2
Views
595
General Lee
G
B
  • Locked
Help-Can't get proper headspace
Replies
5
Views
456
GLShooter
GLShooter
Back
Top