9mm Cast lead. Glock.

[blarby]

Please school me in cast lead for a 9mm factory Glock G17.

This is in conjunction with this thread here :

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685543&p=8516411#post8516411

If it concerns ya.


Please, please, and triple please- Only post if ya do it. I need to know what shakes loose on a factory BBL, or if I need an aftermarket.

Speculation or halfwackery you "heard" about over at glocktalk isn't going to help me.

You don't have to pretend i'm new to reloading, or reloading lead- just reloading cast lead for glock 9mm from a G17.

Thanks.

 

[upstech76]

I've done it with both 9mm and 40 but did get a far amount of leading. I was using MBC bullets over Unique for both calibers. I found that if I loaded a couple plated bullets in every mag it helped clean out the leading. Never blew anything up or hurt anything by doing it. I did decide that the slight price increase for plated rounds was worth the peace of mind and easier cleaning.

 

[Drail]

With polygonal rifling you MUST keep the lead cleaned out and you MUST not let it build up. If you do that you won't have any problems. It's only a problem for folks who don't clean or ever even look closely at the inside of their barrels. On a Glock an aftermarket barrel with cut rifling and additional case support is not a bad idea if you plan to shoot a lot of lead. I have not run tons of lead through a Glock but I have run thousands of Major power loads through a Peters-Stahl 1911 with polygonal rifling with no problems. But you have to stay on top of any lead buildup.

 

[dragon813gt]

Cast your own to the proper size. Use proper lube and you're good to go. The vast majority of leading issues are caused by undersized bullets. I will never recommend commercial cast since you have no control over them.

I cast MP 359-125, size to .358 and use 2500+ lube for my Uncle's Glock. I just finished up getting that all sorted out last month for him. They key for me was the lube. I was getting minimal leading until I switched to 2500+. It's all gone now.


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[Bud0505]

I loaded cast bullets for my G17 for years until I got the internet and found out I wasn't supposed to do it. I've always cleaned my guns after each trip to the range and have never had a problem. I did have aproblem with my reloads not chambering in my Ruger LC9 pocket pistol because of the "Glock Bulge" but switching from a Dillon resizing die to a Lee die cured that problem. BTW I still load lead for my G17.

 

[Sapper771]

I have done it. After quite a bit of headache, I finally found what worked for me. I use to cast my own bullets, still have the stuff, just got lazy.

I used the Lyman 120gr TC four cavity mold. Lead wheel weight alloy, air cooled. Sized to 0.358" and lubed with BAC/Carnuba Red. WSF powder. I kept the velocity down to around 1,000 - 1,050 FPS.

What you have to really watch is the bullet getting swaged by the case. This was a source of most of my problems. The cases were swaging my 0.358" bullets down to 0.355". A modified 38spl plug in a Lyman M die fixed the issue.
Leading was minimal and accuracy was good.

You also need to use a good copper remover on your bore. Lead sticks to copper and causes leading. To remove leading, I used an old bore brush wrapped with chore boy.

Reloading Cast bullets in 9mm is a PITA. Even more so for a Glock factory barrel. It can be done though.

 

[45_auto]

I've been feeding my and my son's 9mm Glocks a steady diet of lead for about 15 years. Currently feeding 2 G17's, a G17L, a G19, and a G26, shooting 4 different classes in GSSF matches and local competitions. Just finished off a box of 1000 Dardas 147g this afternoon, they work awesome on the plate rack. Never seen any difference between my Glocks and any other guns.

Biggest problem I've seen is people using a Lee 9mm Factory Crimp Die to crimp lead bullets. They'll squeeze the lead down undersize and lead any bore up quickly for you.

 

[blarby]

Good to know...

 

[beeenbag]

I done it in a glock 19. Once I found a load that didn't lead too bad, it was horrible accuracy wise. I recovered some of the bullets that were fired from the glock barrel and you could just barely see the rifling marks on them. I don't think they are a good match.

I went with a lonewolf barrel and couldn't be happier. It is $109 piece of mind.

 

[coalman]

A $100 LWD barrel makes all concerns go away. It's cheap and saves time cleaning. I've run >10k LRN through Glocks this way. No worries, less work, less hassle. No-brainer IMO.

 

[solvability]

I shoot cast lead in my Glock 9mm/40 and 45 - the biggest thing I learned was to use the right powder and keep the bullet below 900 fps - for 9mm I recommend 147g.

Powder use W231/HP38 or Solo 1000 for best results and flexibility.

I shoot quite a good bit in IDPA and USPSA so my round count is high - I do clean every 300 or 400 rounds but I have never seen heavy leading & usually just light traces forward of the chamber.

 

[budman46]

i shot a lot of cast 9mms in my glock 30+ yrs ago until one day it blew. what i figured was the bullet "telescoped" into the case during feeding raising pressures to the failure point of the brass. a stinging hand, part of the trigger missing, but the gun still worked (i don't know why i tried it). glock replaced the frame for $65 (dealer's price) and i sold it.

the much increased pressure due to the collapsed bullet, with the unsupported case head of glocks was the reason it blew...a word to the wise.

 

[ljnowell]

i shot a lot of cast 9mms in my glock 30+ yrs ago until one day it blew. what i figured was the bullet "telescoped" into the case during feeding raising pressures to the failure point of the brass. a stinging hand, part of the trigger missing, but the gun still worked (i don't know why i tried it). glock replaced the frame for $65 (dealer's price) and i sold it.

the much increased pressure due to the collapsed bullet, with the unsupported case head of glocks was the reason it blew...a word to the wise.

Thats a neck tension issue, it has nothing to do sith lead.

 

[budman46]

ljnowell,
i agree. the same thing wouldn't have been a probelm with a jacketed bullet due to the increased friction afforded by a brass-on-copper rather than a brass-on-lead situation.

 

[ljnowell]

ljnowell,
i agree. the same thing wouldn't have been a probelm with a jacketed bullet due to the increased friction afforded by a brass-on-copper rather than a brass-on-lead situation.

I disagree with that. If anything you would have had better case neck tension because the lead bullets are .001" bigger. The problem had nothing to do with lead bullets.

 

[mtrmn]

I use Widener's hard cast bullets in 3 first-gen Glock 9mms with no problems.

 

[coalman]

If anything you would have had better case neck tension because the lead bullets are .001" bigger. The problem had nothing to do with lead bullets.

That's not the case in practice. The softer lead will likely size down much easier than FMJ, reducing neck tension, especially since the 9mm is a tapered case.

 

[eldon519]

I didn't think the 9mm Glocks had issues with chamber support.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm_glock_barrel_support.htm

I'm mainly interested because I'm thinking about getting a G19 and like to shoot lead.

 

[ljnowell]

That's not the case in practice. The softer lead will likely size down much easier than FMJ, reducing neck tension, especially since the 9mm is a tapered case.

It has been in all of my practice. There should be NO sizing down of lead in the reloading process, period. That is what would give poor neck tension and that would be a reloaders error. If you load 10 rounds at .356" and then pull those 10 rounds the bullets should still be .356". If they arent then you made a mistake somewhere.

 

[blarby]

There should be NO sizing down of lead in the reloading process, period

Here , here !

Kinda defeats the point of sizing it to start with, dont it ?

 

[JohnKSa]

...what i figured was the bullet "telescoped" into the case during feeding raising pressures to the failure point of the brass.

You figured that why? I'm guessing it was because that's an explanation that doesn't require acknowledging that Glock polygonal rifling and lead bullets can create high pressure events sufficient to cause spontaneous disassembly.

Anyone who is actually interested in facts and isn't predisposed to dismiss information that might cause them to change their opinions will find it useful to read "The Glock in Competition", particularly the chapter written by Mark Passamaneck. Mr. Passamaneck (click for resume) is a forensic mechanical engineer who did an extensive study on lead bullets in Glock barrels using state of the art pressure measuring equipment.

For what it's worth, his investigation was triggered by "shooting a lot of cast bullets in his glock until one day it blew". Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

 

[GLOOB]

I would say I shoot only lead out of my G19, but that would be a lie. I shoot about 85% cast bullets and 15% Berry's plated.

I've not yet found a cast load that doesn't lead up my G19. I think the loose chamber and generous freebore work against it. It would take a severely oversize bullet to close up those gaps.

So the 85% cast is because I load a couple plated bullets in each mag. I am essentially cleaning out the barrel every 7th or 8th shot.

So does this really clean out a barrel? Yes and no. It does not clean all the lead fouling out of a standard land and groove barrel. It does clean out a Glock barrel, clean as a damn whistle, if you've previously removed all the copper fouling and started with a clean barrel. So instead of:
"shooting a lot of cast bullets in his glock until one day it blew", I shoot only 6-7 cast bullets through it, then shoot a plated bullet and hope it doesn't blow.

I regularly clean my standard rifled FN and my revolvers. I regularly inspect my G19, and it just keeps going and going without needing any cleaning.

My G21 eats 100% lead, typically. And it shoots cleaner than all my other handguns, including standard grooved pistols and revolvers. It's quite the opposite of my G19. So for different reasons, both my Glocks with stock barrels shoot lead with less effort than all my other handguns.

I'll put in an extra 2 cents on shooting cast in semiauto rifles. I've seen where a guy "busted" the myth that shooting cast bullets will lead up your gas port on an AR-15. Well, that might be true, but they sure do lead up the gas port on an MSAR. Esp bad if you shoot some jacketed after shooting lead. The jacketed bullet pushes the hidden lead bits out of the grooves and through the gas port. When the thing finally jams solid, you need some tools to pry the gas plug out, and some hoppes to loosen the plunger. That still doesn't stop me, though. I just clean regularly and avoid mixing jacketed and cast. I'm getting superb accuracy with cast out of both my rifles. Course, that's by my own standards, which have yet to include a bench.

 

[JohnKSa]

I haven't seen any data on "cleaning" a leaded barrel by shooting plated bullets through it, but I have seen a couple of authorities (including Allan Jones, of Speer) comment on using jacketed bullets for the task. For what it's worth, the consensus was that it increases the potential for a catastrophic incident. Jones noted that he had seen a number of guns damaged by the practice.

It's quite the opposite of my G19.

This is a big part of the problem.

Passamaneck noted that he tried the same lead bullet load in two apparently identical Glocks and found that one, after having fired only 75 rounds, exhibited twice the effects of pressure increase as the other pistol did after having fired 300 rounds. That's double the effect from 4 times fewer rounds.

In other words, it's not that it's certain to cause problems, it's that it's not possible to provide an accurate rule for how to avoid problems.

 

[GLOOB]

I haven't seen any data on "cleaning" a leaded barrel by shooting plated bullets through it, but I have seen a couple of authorities (including Allan Jones, of Speer) comment on using jacketed bullets for the task. For what it's worth, the consensus was that it increases the potential for a catastrophic incident. Jones noted that he had seen a number of guns damaged by the practice.

Thanks. I should have added that this is potentially dangerous and not a universal solution.

1. I would NEVER shoot a jacketed bullet out of a rifle if there was visible lead fouling in the barrel. I always inspect the barrel, first.
2. I would not do this so carelessly in my Glock if it weren't for the fact that in my particular instance this one plated bullet does, in fact, remove practically all traces of lead from the barrel. So I am literally cleaning out the barrel after every 6-7 shots and starting fresh. I do not jive with the practice of shooting lead all day, then finishing up with a couple mags of jacketed ammo fired through several hundred rounds worth of fouling.
3. In the end, even these measures are not a guarantee of safety.

 

[breacher]

Gloob - exact same thing here with my Glock 35 barrel in 40 cal. I throw a couple plated rds into every mag and it stays nice & clean. I know it leads when shooting cast only because I spent a few range trips experimenting with various lead bullet weights and various powders. I'd start seeing a good bit after a few mags. I had heard about the FMJ and plated "cleanout" and found it works great.

I have an aftermarket barrel in 40 for my Glock 32 and it leads also and it is much harder to clean. The real downside is the tight chamber. I have to chamber check every reloaded rd in it or risk malfunctions due to the dreaded Glock bulge. I have about a 20% rejection rate with that barrel. But my factory G35 barrel will eat everything. That's why I don't wanna go aftermarket again with another barrel.

I don't load any 40 ammo past mid-range, mostly real light plinking loads. Not at all worried about kabooms.