9mm Expander Die Usage

[peeplwtchr]

Hi All-

New to reloading, taking a single stage press through batches on each die, so I get each one set correctly, and get the step. So I am adjusting the Expanding die to barely allow me to set .356 bullet on the case for seating. During the Expander upstroke, not alot of tension. On the downstroke it feels like the flair on the case mouth is catching the bottom of the expander die. It's not violent or anything, but the press/bench does vibrate, and a clearly audible catch sound is heard. I assume this is normal, right?

Thanks

 

[gifbohane]

I am more concerned with the amount of flare than the sound of the press. Most say the you should be able to turn the cartridge over and not have the bullet fall out with proper flair.

What type of round?

 

[peeplwtchr]

thanks, 9mm

 

[edwardware]

Expander upstroke, not alot of tension. On the downstroke it feels like the flair on the case mouth is catching the bottom of the expander die.

I'm going to guess you're using Lee's Powder Through Expander die? Yes, it's by design- to jostle any hung powder down into the case.

The flare mandrel floats in the die until you hit the bottom of it's stroke, whereupon it pops.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Is it a “powder through” die?

 

[gifbohane]

As I remember normal case mouth of 9MM before belling is .375.There is a rule of thumb saying .010 increase.

I flair the case mouth to a max of .383 with 9MM. With using many different head stamps that usually works for me. Google it for more thorough information.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Pics of 1/3 below the mouth and of the expanded mouth measurements.

 

[Walkalong]

If the case mouth is .377 and 1/3 of the way down is .379, that case isn't flared/belled at the mouth, and makes my spidey sense tingle.

There is a rule of thumb saying .010 increase.

Is there?

I don't look at numbers, I just flare enough to just start the bullet.

Wrong die body? Incorrect ID of die body at the bottom?

Is the mouth of the die body is squeezing the belling back in when you pull the case out of the die?

 

[Ruger 15151]

My guess it that you are flaring the case too much and the mouth is scrapping the inside of the sizing die as it is pulled out. I used to run into that when I was trying to increase the flare to seat an oversized lead bullet. You most likely are flaring the case so much that the expander plug is pushing the mouth out against the inside of the die body.

Try starting with a new ly sized case and back your expander plug out about a turn. Then, slowly add flair until the bullet sit 1/32-1/16 into the case mouth. That's all you need and it shouldn't cause you to feel resistance on the down stroke.

Normal expander plugs work but they are not ideal. I would suggest looking at dies with a 2-step expander plug like that founf in Lyman M-type Expander dies, Redding, and Dillion. Instead of just belling the case mouth, they actula create a shelf for the bullet to sit in. It not only helps you seat the bullet straight but you don't have to worry about over-expanding the case mouth.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lyman-m-expanding-die.3990627/

 

[peeplwtchr]

If the case mouth is .377 and 1/3 of the way down is .379, that case isn't flared/belled at the mouth, and makes my spidey sense tingle.


Is there?

I don't look at numbers, I just flare enough to just start the bullet.

Wrong die body? Incorrect ID of die body at the bottom?

Is the mouth of the die body is squeezing the belling back in when you pull the case out of the die?

As I remember normal case mouth of 9MM before belling is .375.There is a rule of thumb saying .010 increase.

I flair the case mouth to a max of .383 with 9MM. With using many different head stamps that usually works for me. Google it for more thorough information.

I saw this .10 increase on Ultimate Reloader too. I dunno how he manages that. Also, this is a Lee die set.

 

[Walkalong]

Can you check to see if the expander die body is squeezing the belling back down as the case comes back out of the die?

The die body of the seater die can squeeze the flare down as well if it is a bit much and you have a nice tight seater die.

 

[peeplwtchr]

The case on left is sized and flared, case on right is just sized. Hopefully you can see the banded flaring a few mm below the mouth

 

[Walkalong]

this is a Lee die set.

That is what I was picturing in my head. The die body has a smaller hole at the bottom vs a hollowed out middle to hold the expander plug. If the hole in the bottom of the die was not smaller, the expander plug would fall out.

 

[peeplwtchr]

My guess it that you are flaring the case too much and the mouth is scrapping the inside of the sizing die as it is pulled out. I used to run into that when I was trying to increase the flare to seat an oversized lead bullet. You most likely are flaring the case so much that the expander plug is pushing the mouth out against the inside of the die . My theory.

Try starting with a new ly sized case and back your expander plug out about a turn. Then, slowly add flair until the bullet sit 1/32-1/16 into the case mouth. That's all you need and it shouldn't cause you to feel resistance on the down stroke. Did this.

Normal expander plugs work but they are not ideal. I would suggest looking at dies with a 2-step expander plug like that founf in Lyman M-type Expander dies, Redding, and Dillion. Instead of just belling the case mouth, they actula create a shelf for the bullet to sit in. It not only helps you seat the bullet straight but you don't have to worry about over-expanding the case mouth.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/lyman-m-expanding-die.3990627/

 

[Walkalong]

The case on left is sized and flared, case on right is just sized. Hopefully you can see the banded flaring a few mm below the mouth

Yep, looks good, so what is destroying that, because no way that case mouth measures smaller than what it does below that like in your previous pics.

 

[peeplwtchr]

Another pic.

 

[peeplwtchr]

[QUOTE="Walkalong, post: 11630200, member:

Wrong die body? Incorrect ID of die body at the bottom? Seems to be right?[/QUOTE]

 

[peeplwtchr]

Is it a “powder through” die?

It is.

 

[frankmako]

flare enough to just start the bullet. don't over think this. just enough to start the bullet.

 

[peeplwtchr]

I'm going to guess you're using Lee's Powder Through Expander die? Yes, it's by design- to jostle any hung powder down into the case.

The flare mandrel floats in the die until you hit the bottom of it's stroke, whereupon it pops.

Based on this, it may be functioning correctly.

 

[Walkalong]

[QUOTE="Walkalong, post: 11630200, member:

Wrong die body? Incorrect ID of die body at the bottom? Seems to be right?

Can't tell anything from that. What is the inner diameter of the bottom of the die? Does an expanded/flared case pass through easily?

 

[peeplwtchr]

Also, thrre

flare enough to just start the bullet. don't over think this. just enough to start the bullet.

So it's flared enough for the bullet to not fall off. But as I read through the thread, I saw a mention that it should sit straight. Maybe it will, maybe it won't completely. Shouldn't a Seating die solve that? I dunno how much precision I need for training rounds?

 

[peeplwtchr]

Can't tell anything from that. What is the inner diameter of the bottom of the die? Does an expanded/flared case pass through easily?

Pic in I.D. attached. Does the flared case pass through easily? For a couple mm, which makes sense I think.

 

[buba68]

flare enough to just start the bullet. don't over think this. just enough to start the bullet.

Yes, I use the Lee 4 die set with the powder feed through the expander and I do not use any magical number I just expand the case enough to start the bullet in the case and not shave the plating or if it is lead not to shave any lead. It has worked for me for several thousand 9mm. I think when I first got the Lee dies and set them up I was running the expander in further and as the expander came back out of the case it made something like a popping sound probably like the OP was saying. When I backed the expander out a little more it went away.

 

[Englishmn]

My lee powder through expander dies do the jerky thing. It works so I didn't worry about it.