Dillon doesn't supply a M-die profile expander. Folk who want a die with that profile commonly go with the aftermarket one from DAA
9mm Expander Die Usage
- Thread starter peeplwtchr
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If the bullet doesn't start into the setting die mostly straight, it will cause a budge on the side of the case...which can cause feeding issues
Nope the Seating die only pushing the bullet into the case. If the bullet is crooked, the seating stem will push it in crooked.
The exception are seating dies with floating sleeves that guides/aligns the bullet with the case before the seating stem starts to push them together. The Hornady Seating die will do this to a certain degree. The Redding Competition Seating die will align the case and bullet to a much higher degree
Chillydog
Member
I was having problems seating bullets straight without a bulge on one side of the case with the Lee seater. The Redding competition seating die solved that. Very nice seater, just expensive.
irishlad
Contributing Member
I polished my die. No problem since.
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peeplwtchr
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How did you polish it?
irishlad
Contributing Member
Super fine emery cloth and flitz polish.
entropy
Member
I do not like Lee's 'flaring' die, mostly because it doesn't flare well, and it's a floating part, a poor design. I put up with it in .45 LC, because I load maybe one box a year. My .45 ACP and .38 Spl. dies are RCBS, thier flaring dies are a much better design.
Ironicaintit
Member
I have powder through dies for 380acp and 45acp, and they work okay for me!
Sure, they have that “pop”, but I understand the vibratory purpose of it, so they’re fine.
I’m a “minimalist” as far as belling anyway (baaarely enough) so maybe that’s why I don’t mind ‘em
Sure, they have that “pop”, but I understand the vibratory purpose of it, so they’re fine.
I’m a “minimalist” as far as belling anyway (baaarely enough) so maybe that’s why I don’t mind ‘em
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
As has been said. Flare just enough to start the bullet. It ain’t rocket surgery. No need to over think it.
markr6754
Member
I chickened out. I started out with Lee's 4 die 9mm set. Initially I didn't really notice the case popping in the powder through expander, but over time it got more and more pronounced. It jostled my bench so much that my car alarm would go off (joke). Adjusting for less expansion just meant I had to hand press the bullet into the case. That rapidly grew old so I changed out for new dies. I cycle between my Hornady set or my Lyman set, depending which press I'm using. Now that I bought a new Frankford Arsenal M Press I'm wondering if I have to buy a new set of dies?
I also bought the Lee universal expanding die set which is really smooth...but I don't really use it that much.
I also bought the Lee universal expanding die set which is really smooth...but I don't really use it that much.
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peeplwtchr
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Okay, so I just seated (I assume it was the seating die, as it was the shape of a bullet inside, and was fairly consistent. Lee die instructions suck ass) 10 bullets with no primer/charge. The flair was barely enough to hand seat them mostly straight. I did a few that were not so straight. The seating die made them straight. I sat them at a target of 1.150, as my factory ammo ranges from 1.13 to 1.58. Load data for Unique powder states min OAL of 1.35 for 115gr. FMJ, I am using plated 115gr.. All my 9mm guns shoot all the varied OAL factory ammo literally flawlessly (Good guns though). So I think I'm ready to move to the crimp die, but not sure I wanna do that for practice ammo. The bullets I seated aren't going anywhere, at least in non-live fire.
My long winded point is thanks for all the responses, this was a great learning thread for more people than me, and I will reference it often.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Since you flared the case I think you should at least use the Lee Factory Crimp die to put some crimp on the cartridges. Follow the instructions on the Lee Instructions that comes with your set and put a 1/2 turn crimp on the cartridge case. A 1/2 turn crimp is minimal and shouldn’t hurt a thing.
Usually you need to crimp enough to remove the "flare" of the case mouth from expanding it. If you don't you could run into feeding issues. The easiest way to tell is when you run them through your case gauge...that will pick up any cases that were bulged by crooked bullets
Glad to hear the seating went well. I've generally found the seating die (I use RCBS for 9mm) will straighten out the bullet if it's not quite right. I have had occasions where that wouldn't happen where I'd get a bulge. I bought the Lee Factory Crimp die to resolve exactly these types of scenarios. This die has its detractors, but I really like it. (Some say if that die is needed something is not being done right......so fix the root cause.) I've used the FCD for probably 4,000 rounds and it increases my confidence in my ammo.
I hope I'm not jumping to an inappropriate conclusion, but have you read or heard about the plunk test and have you performed that with your test ammo in the pistols you'll be using? Your comments above lead me to believe you're choosing your target OAL based on what factory ammo measures and the load book is stating. Even though factory OALs work in a given gun it doesn't NECESSARILY mean the same OAL, using a different bullet, will fit in a gun. Bullet profiles can be different and this can impact cartridge fit in a barrel. To test: Take the barrel out of the pistol. Hold the barrel vertical with the chamber up. Drop the test round into the chamber. Then turn the barrel over so the chamber is facing down. The cartridge should fall out easily and freely and drop into your hand. If it does this it means the bullet is not touching the lands....which is what you want. If the cartridge DOESN'T fall out on its own, then the bullet needs to be seated a bit deeper. If I need to go shorter than min OAL than is in the load data, then I reduce my starting powder charge.
I had an experience in this space that scared the you-know-what out of me.
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peeplwtchr
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Thanks alot, yes did the barrel thing with all barrels, and a gauge. Cycled dummies quickly through all as well. Thanks for helping watch out for me!
Blue68f100
Member
Once again, CRIMP DOES NOT HOLD THE BULLET. Adding excess crimp lessens bullet hold. Neck tension holds the bullet.
Just use your std Taper Crimp die. Adj it to just remove any flaring. The longer cases will get more taper crimp than the shorter cases. Your you calipers to check your crimp. Less is better as long as the flare can not be detected.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
I have found that the 9mm Lee Factory Crimp die adjusted to 1/2 turn in does exactly what you are saying here. It crimps the flare.
buba68
Member
I have the Lee 4 die set and the factory crimp die has work well for me. I have loaded a couple thousand 9mm and the factory crimp die takes care of the crimp and any slight bulges in the case if any. The resizing ring in the die makes sure the case if within spec when finished. All rounds have fed 100% no problems with bullet setback.
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peeplwtchr
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Just did this, and have good news. Yesterday after I test seated about 10 bullets, I noticed that 4 would not go into the 9mm bullet checker round tool all the way. The last millimeter (Primer end) was above the acceptible plane. I could get them all the way in if I pushed hard with my thumb.
After crimping, all rounds now just quickly drop into the gauge. So they do get resized. Yea!
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buba68
Member
Yes, sounds like you are almost there. Don't get frustrated concentrate and fix one problem at a time and you will get there.Just did this, and have good news. Yesterday after I test seated about 10 bullets, I noticed that 4 would not go into the 9mm bullet checker round tool all the way. The last millimeter (Primer end) was above the acceptible plane. I could get them all the way in if I pushed hard with my thumb.
After crimping, all rounds now just quickly drop into the gauge. So they do get resized. Yea!
You need to read up on the Plunk Test it will become your friend anytime you change bullets and you say you have multiple 9mm pistols and what feeds in one will not necessarily feed 100% in all of them and you might have to have slightly different COL for some guns. It is good to have a case checker gage to spot check with but remember the barrel of your gun is what the cartridge has to actually feed into and function ok. So it is always best to use the barrel of the gun you are loading for to determine the correct COL for that gun. The plunk test has never failed me.
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peeplwtchr
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Yeah I did the plunk thing yesterday thanks. I just learned about the crimp push test today. To test if my crimp is enough, I pushed the bullet end of crimped dummy rounds into my workbench hard, no OAL change. I banged it into the bench with one hand, OAL dropped .002. That's gotta be enough.
If you are still talking 9MM, you are checking to see if you have enough neck tension.
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peeplwtchr
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Cool, thanks.
An important area that many folks miss while doing the plunk test is that the round should be able to rotate freely after it is inserted into the chamber. I've seen folks who could get their rounds to drop in and drop freely out, but who's rounds wouldn't rotate in the chamber...then they are surprised when their slide won't go into battery
lordpaxman
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I don’t have the same press, but use a PTX as well. Since I wet tumble, the brass is really clean and I use One Shot case lube just to smooth things out a bit. Good luck!
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