9mm Load to Simulate SD +P Ammo?

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rdtompki

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In competition I shoot pretty soft 9mm, 147gr WSF loads in my 1911. I'm looking for a load with WSF, W231 or N340 that would simulate a +P SD round (any bullet weight). I'm going to use factory ammo for SD, but I'd like something to practice with that should be considerably less expensive than factory. I'll still do some practice each month with the SD ammo.

It may be more of a question of which powder at the "safest" top end. In any event I'd start low-middle and work my way up. The SD gun is an HK P2000 so it should handle +P no problem.

I need to stick with coated lead bullets given some restrictions when shooting steel at our range.
 
I don't know WSF or 231, those two don't really suit my personal taste for a full pressure SD option. But Longshot will do just about anything in the full pressure SD range you'll want.

I run 147 gr. XTP's with Longshot, and being a slower burner among the 9mm powders, it will easily drive a 147 gr. at 1050 fps, even 1100 fps without pressure management issues. I've even worked it up well beyond published data without a single hiccup, so I could get 1100+ fps as a SD load.

WSF and 231 make fine target powders, but they're just a bit on the fast burning side to be a practical +P SD option IMO.

HS6 isn't bad either, though it can reach max a bit sooner than Longshot does, and falls just short of what Longshot can accomplish.

GS
 
I like Power Pistol for top end loads in 9mm, 40sw and 38 special. I usually use jacketed Motana Gold or XTPs though. I've only used it sparingly with cast and coated bullets. It works, but jacketed seem like the better choice for +P type rounds.
 
If you ever look at the spec closely on +P loads will see that most have higher pressure as expected but not velocity. WSF will get you the high velocity you looking for but the pressure may be lower.
 
I know this doesn't fall in line with your question in relation to powders. But Western Powders is the only one I can think of that published +P data for lead.
 
After I get the handgun broken in with a ordinary factory ammo I'll see how it feels with SD ammo. I can work up some WSF loads and see how they feel near the top of published data. I do have some HS-6, but can only try another powder when I'm already placing a Hazmat order online; right now I have enough WSF to last 2 years, but we do go through 4K primers/month so keep those suggestions flowing.
 
Long Shot, Power Pistol, Unique any of the the "slower" powders

It all depends on what weight bullet heavier weight a little slower velocity , lighter bullet gives higher velocity, calculate the recoil and or energy delivered.

If you want to simulate SD loads that try to use what you are going to actually carry and use. I like 124 gr bullets. Best way is load what you plan on carrying and chronograph them.
 
I shoot 4.3 BE under 124 RNL or FMJ for practice. Not +P but they shoot pretty much the same POI as +Ps like GD and GS, and feel the same.

The RNL runs at 1121fps, and the FMJ at 1062.

These out of a M&P9c. Your 1911 might get a few more fps.
 
I'm running 5.4 grains BE-86 under a Berry's 124 grain flat point, I must be pushing 1150+ fps based on what moxie is getting at 4.3. I'm shooting a 4" Walther PPX 9mm.
 
I use WSF, and its great for mild loads, but its not a powder you want to take to the upper limits. Felt recoil is deceiving. I can't speak to your other powders, but I use Blue Dot for my upper end loads. It will be a lot less difficult to recommend a similar to your defense load, once you decide what that defense load will be.
 
It is relatively easy to duplicate the velocity of a+P commercial loading using standard pressure reloading data and the correct powder. It is the velocity that's important not the pressure. You will need a medium burn pistol powder or slower and your n340 should be able to match +p with 115 and 124gr bullets. Best way is to use a chronograph to test the velocities of factory and hand loads and find a match.
 
N-340 at 6.1 gr with the Hornaday 115gr XTP delivers 1330fps from a 4" barrel, according to the VV manual. Note that the full OAL is required, if your gun has a short throat then you would have to seat deeper and reduce the charge. I can't say if your coated bullets would hold up at this velocity, but this gives you a starting point.
 
N340 will do exactly what you want it to. VV provides load data for both 115gr XTP and 124gr XTP bullets.
 
No! Unfortunately Alliant named its newest powder BE-86 which causes no end of confusion as is the case here.

BE-86 is a great powder, but is much slower (burn rate) than Bullseye, commonly abbreviated as BE.

The two are NOT interchangeable.
 
I will not recommend going over published book maxs but a max load of 231 or WSF should feel close to the +P rounds.
If you are after max vel in 9mm Longshot is hard to beat, never used N340 so I don't know about it.
N340 is about the same burn speed as WSF so if I was after MAX vel I would like something slower.
Some people like Blue Dot, 3N37, AA#7 for max vel in 9mm, I have never used them so I can't say how they are but that is the speed range you are after. (Longshot is in this area as well, check out a burn rate chart)

VV does not list pressures with their data but the loads Lyman lists as max with N340 is about 1124fps with a 115 Jacketed while VV max is 1300. I don't know if VVs data runs towards the hot side or for some reason they are getting higher vels with their test setup.
Anybody have some real life vels for N340 loads? 1300 seems high IMO.
With 120 lead Lyman 49 has these #s
231 max 4.1 1145 fps
N340 max 4.5 1135 fps




Some #s here
http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

Note the +P in Federal are about 50fps faster, not a lot.

For some practice rounds I load close to MAX charges, not what I normally shoot but they feel close enough to the +P that I think you would be hard pressed to tell the difference shooting them.
I prefer Longshot for these.

With 5.2 gr of BE86 and a 124gr RMR FN I was getting 1200 out of my Springfield 9mm 1911. (5") No pressure signs but on the hot side. IMO Allaint lists 5.8 max but I don't know that I would want to go that high.
4.7 BE86 is about 1100fps in that gun.
 
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You don't need a max load of anything to duplicate a +P factory round for practice. Just need to ballpark the velocity, felt recoil and POI.

For example, Golden Saber 124+P chronos 1126fps out of my M&P9c. The Gold Dot runs at 1157. Over 4.3 grs. Bullseye (under any max I can find), the 124 FMJ goes 1062 and the 124 RNL goes 1121. Can't tell the difference between the four. The Federal HST goes a bit faster at 1236, but still the 4.3 Bullseye load is so close in feel and accuracy that a change in load for practice isn't warranted.
 
Regarding the differences between Lyman and other listed loads, the critical factor is the cartridge OAL listed for the load. If it's less than the SAAMI max of 1.169", you are losing case capacity, which in the 9x19 seriously affects pressures. Because many gunmakers use a short leade in their pistols, many loading manuals list COALs that are way below the standard, to ensure their product passes the 'plunk' test in all guns. This also means their recommended maximum loads are anemic, compared to loadings with the full correct COAL. Case in point, the VV loading recommendations are all with the 1.169 length.
 
Trying to duplicate a +P load with a fast burning powder like WSF is asking for a Kaboom. Fast powders operate in a coffin corner and can show pressure spikes when loaded above the max. Slower powders have a more gentle pressure curve.
 
From burn rate chart
Hodgdon HP-38 (#30)
Winchester 231
Alliant 20/28
Alliant Unique
Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
Alliant Power Pistol (#35)
VihtaVuori N330
Alliant Herco
Winchester WSF (#38)
VihtaVuori N340
IMR, Co Hi-Skor 800-X
IMR, Co SR 4756
Ramshot True Blue
Accurate Arms No. 5
Hodgdon HS-6
Winchester AutoComp (#45)
CFE Pistol

Don't confuse WSF medium to medium-slow burn speed (I am calling H110/296 slow since we are talking about pistol powders) with WST fairly fast. The OP said WSF.
Of course burn speed is not the only factor to consider, just an idea of how a powder MIGHT behave.
My experience with WSF leads me to believe this is about right, slower than Unique or Universal, faster than Autocomp or CFE Pistol.

Do you feel much difference between factory +P and non +P loads? I don't notice a lot in my 1911 (heavier gun) and both seem lots stouter when shot in my XD sub compact!
The only way to know would be for you to try it in you gun and see, then decide if you need to run +P pressures to get the velocity you desire.
(Longshot will give you some pretty hot loads and still not be +P)
 
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kcofohio said:
I know this doesn't fall in line with your question in relation to powders. But Western Powders is the only one I can think of that published +P data for lead.
Click to expand...
Alliant has +P data for some of its lead loads in 38 Spec & some other other calibers for what it is worth. I also prefer Power Pistol for SD loads in most of the usual calibers. I haven't tried BE 86 yet but it looks very promising in the forums from what I have read.
 
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