9mm luger / HP-38 powder

[gunguy59]

Hi all!
Does anyone have in their books a load for a

9mm luger

115gr XTP using the HP-38 (Hodgdon brand) powder
and also
115 gr FMJ using the HP-38 powder?

My manuals don't have the load out for them using this powder(Lyman and Hornady) and I see variance compared to what is listed on the container. I'm not really trusting the 5.1 data listed since my books are telling me quite the different. Don't want to under charge or over charge the rounds for my pistol. (9mm ruger SR9)

Thanks a bunch if you can help me out!

*I do also have a question on the crimping of the case (first time doing pistol rounds, I've mainly done rifle loads) - how much should it be crimping? Is it just enough to taper the edge around the bullet?

Thanks again! Happy holidays! May Santa bring you more munitions!! ;-)

 

[DeadEye9]

With 9mm just a slight taper crimp is good, you don't need any rifle style crimps lol.
As for the loads you requested I'll give you a lot of info because I regularly load and shoot XTPs by the hundreds. First off, why 115gr? FMJ or XTP, almost without exception 124/147s are going to function better and be more accurate. Also, HP-38/W231 isn't the best choice for 9. I've used a ton of it for 9mm and am now much happier with Power Pistol or AA#7 for full power loads and TiteGroup for plinking loads.
In any event, here's your data:
Book Info- 115 XTP HP-38/W231
Low-3.5 (959fps) High 4.9(1233fps)
OAL 1.090"

115 FMJ RN Low-4.2(1031fps) High-5.2(1162fps) OAL 1.100"

My personal loads before I got away from 115 grain bullets and using HP-38 for 9mm are as follows.
115 XTP/Federal & Speer brass/Winchester SP primer. 5.0gr 1.095" OAL 1235fps average (Glock 19) very accurate. Going down to 4.8gr reduces velocity to ~1180 and reduces felt recoil slightly but did not increase accuracy potential. For this load though, 6.4gr of Power Pistol was noticeably more accurate with about the same velocity of not slightly higher. This is why I switched powders.

For 115 FMJ I used to load Winchester bullets and my loads were:

4.7gr HP-38, Federal/Winchester brass/Winchester SP primer, seated to 1.106". Very easy to manage and tight grouping load. Only around 1040fps from glock 19 though. Stepping up to 5gr increased velocity to 1110fps but groups opened slightly.

Overall though, the 124 and 147 XTP and 147 FMJ FN have all performed better in the accuracy department than any of the 115 I've ever tried, and some picky smaller pistols don't seem to like the 115 RN stuff much in my experience.

 

[DeadEye9]

Also, try looking for 231 or W231 load Data when you don't see HP-38 for a given load, it's the exact same powder.
HP-38=W231 so load accordingly.

 

[meesterdon]

I like 115 grain 9's and I like W231/HP38. You can find good data on http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yes, HP-38 does = W231 verified by Hodgdon so you can use the W231 data in your manuals.

 

[rskent]

First off, why 115gr? FMJ or XTP, almost without exception 124/147s are going to function better and be more accurate.

I don’t know why anyone would think that. I believe that 115’s are the way to go. And 115 XTP’s are awesome. I have tested quit a few different 124’s and 47’s and I always end up back at 115’s.

As for HP38 / w231, I think it’s one of those pistol powders that you can load most anything with and have good results. It’s not my favorite for 9mm, but it will certainly produce good loads.

Maybe, just Maybe you don’t care for HP38 and 115 grain bullets because you haven’t tried them together? Not trying to be a d—k, just asking?

 

[cheygriz]

I like 115 grain bullets.

But I totaly agree with some of the others that 231/HP38 is far from ideal for loading 9MM.

HS-6
AAC#7
AAC#5
Universal
Power Pistol
Unique

All better choices, in my experience.

BTW, AAC#7 was specifically developed by IMI for 9MM loads for the Uzi SMG.

 

[egd]

WHY is 231/38 not the best for 9mm? It seems to work good for me. But I'm open to learn more.

 

[cheygriz]

It will certainly work. but the charge range is very narrow, and factory duplication (Stanag) loads are tricky to develop without going over max.

 

[Walkalong]

HP-38/W-231 isn't optimum for full velocity loads in 9MM. It certainly isn't going to get top velocity under the pressure limits. As posted, Power Pistol, AA #5, HS-6, AA #7, Unique etc are better choices. The 9MM case is tiny, OAL makes a big difference, and it is too easy to go over pressure using W-231. It's not a bad choice, and is very serviceable, but not for pushing velocity. The old Winchester PDF and current online Hodgdon data certainly agree with that. They show maxes around 1125+ FPS. They stopped there (Under max pressure) for a reason, and when labs do that it is usually because it did not work well trying to push the limit. The powders mentioned are much better behaved when doing that. You're not going to get 1235 FPS with W-231 under SAMMI max pressure IMHO. Hodgdon and Winchester data appear to agree.

Want some nice 90% plinking/target loads? W-231 will do that great. Want full power loads? Stick with something slower. Can the factories/labs do it? Sure, they have pressure equipment, but as mentioned, there are so many variables and the small case is so unforgiving at those pressures, stick with a slower powder to push the limits at home.

By the time you "see" pressure signs in 9MM cases, you are way over max.

I used to shoot nothing but 115 Gr FMJ or 124 Gr lead in 9MM. The first was the cheapest jacketed, and the 124 lead was what the vendors had. I was young and the shooting budget was thin.

I have changed to 124/5 Gr almost exclusively over 115 Gr. My EMP doesn't like 115 Gr, and my other guns like 124/5 as well or better than 115 Gr. I keep meaning to try 147s, but haven't gotten around to it. This is for playing plinking. For the 3" EMP, nothing worked better than N340 for me as far as velocity. For years my full power 9MM powder was AA #5, but have since tried others and many worked just fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, I see cheygriz beat me to it, and said it much more succinctly.

 

[gunguy59]

Thanks everyone for your input. I will load these first 25 rounds with the 115 and the HP/WIN231 powder and see how it does.

Thanks again for everyones time!!

 

[egd]

OK, I see. I don't try to go max. I just try for mid range for uspsa and steel.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

OK, I see. I don't try to go max. I just try for mid range for uspsa and steel.

I don't think that was what was meant. W231/HP-38 is a little fast to generate the max velocity without going over pressure. It us perfectly safe to run up to the max as long as you don't see pressure problems. I have loaded to the top if the charge range without a problem with 124gr bullets.

I use W231 for most if my handgun loading but when loading "specialty" stuff I choose different powders. Example, when loading an FBI replica load I use HS-6 and when I load a Speer GDHP .38 Special +P replica I use AA#5 and a Speer .357 Magnum SB replica load I use Power Pistol. 9mm loads that I use for more serious work get a charge of Longshot.

 

[egd]

I understand. I will continue to use it for my purposes. It works fine. That and wsf are my two favorites. I shoot both slightly over mid range I'd say.

 

[Walkalong]

That and wsf are my two favorites

WSF is a good one for full velocity loads. I may not have been clear on what I meant by full velocity. I don't mean max pressure, I mean the most velocity you can get safely (under SAMMI max pressure) in 9MM, and that is going to be with powders slower than W-231.

 

[Doublehelix]

I have been using a lot of TiteGroup for 9mm, but also have a bunch of HP-38 and Win 231, so I might try working up some plinking rounds for 9mm. I also have a pound of Power Pistol that might get some work too. Sometimes it is good to get out of our normal ruts and try new things, and other times it works out that we were "right all along"!!!

 

[cheygriz]

The only "pressure sign" that I pay attention to is case life.

If my cases can't be loaded more than 2-3 times, I'm over my comfort zone for pressure.

OTOH, if I can load them more than 5-6 times with no loose primer pockets and no case bulges near the head, I'm very comfortable with the load.

 

[J_McLeod]

I've loaded a few thousand 115gr FMJs using the data on the can. It says those are the max loads and to start by reducing 10%. I shoot mine at 4.9.

 

[1KPerDay]

factory duplication (Stanag) loads

 

[Dudedog]

I really like WSF in 9mm, works well for me from mid range to high end. (midrange=124gr at about 1030fps or so)-Favorite 9mm powder right now.
It also works well with 115s and 147s.
If you just are loading Full Power and want top vels Longshot works well. (not so well for less than full power, load and flashy, but top vels)
HP38/231 works well for less than FP loads but I prefer something slower for 9mm. (and I save the HP38 for .45s)