9mm lunacy!

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Gordon

Gordon

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For the last 2 years I've been trying to make a 9mm tackdriver that could be used in training. I have .45 1911s that are sorted outand I have (shudder ) 40 years experience with. But a hi cap 9mm with it's light recoil , in a reliable platform would be, well, cheaper to shoot paper targets with.
So i took my little used Italian made Beretta 92 and went to work. I put in Wolfe's springs and their Border Patrol trigger conversion. I honeed the hammer sear to give me a nice 8 pound DA 4.5# SA with a nice letoff. I installed a set of LPA adjustable night sights . I waited 6 months for a Barsto Barrel (they only run 92 barrels once a year)while I took the thing to a 1000 round vehicle assault course to get used to it. Scott Reitz has seen a few of these in LAPD and showed me how to use the crunchen ticker ('like a revolver') and decocker ect. So I put in the Barsto Barrel this Christmas and been sighting it in.
Well it never shot bad , averaged 3"+ at 25 yards rested with Federal American Eagle. Now it does 2" with the new barrel. Since I shoot 147 Grain Ranger +p if I had serious work , I found some CHEAP 147 grain Santa Barbara MilSurp training ammo that has similar balistics so the gun is sighted in for the serious load! This stuff has a goodly tamped charge! The big framed 92 absorbs it and it is 3/4 the recoil of full house 230 grain 45 ammo, so I can shoot pretty fast.
So everything is good , right? Well not really. My new out of the box CZ P0-1 , with it's rather weird trigger shoots the Federal ammo into 1.5" at 25 yards rested! As good as my Gold Cup! :uhoh: The CZ seems to fit my hand better than the huge Beretta and weighs about 2/3 as much AND holds a light. I'm going back to 1911s for the upcoming training season, these crunchentickers are really whacky. No way I'm taking the P0-1 to AZ. , I don't even have the requisite 6 mags ,nor intend to buy them. Now if I could just find a load to shoot 1 hole out of the Beretta!:rolleyes:
 
Hi Gordon.

Well - bottom line, some guns just shoot better than others ! :D

That's a lotta work you put into the 92, and some $$$$'s too. I keep hearing good things about the CZ's and if I was not well ''SIG'ed'' would easily consider getting one (or more!).
 
Where the hell are your priorities man?

Did you ever stop to think how many cz mags you could have bought for the cost of that bar-sto?

Did you stop to think what you could do if you smithed the trigger on the cz?

Actually, a good way to smith a cz is to shoot the living *&%$ out of it. Like Wine, they get better with age. A ten second trigger job on a cz means blowing the factory grit out of the trigger and hammer with compressed air and solvent. Maybe a spot of grease on the sear.

Seems to me you are spending a lot of time, money, and maybe some ego, trying not to be another painfully happy cz shooter.

Another thing. 147's in 9mm usually don't give the same groups you can get with 124's. 124's are the 9mm sweetspot for many shooters. Blend of accuracy and terminal performance.

I'm just having a hard time seeing your logic.
 
Well, I don't have much regard for Beretta 92s, but 2" ain't bad if we're talkin' 25 yards? It ain't a match gun after all, though sounds like you were attempting to make it such.

I've never found 9mm to be a particularly laser accurate round to begin with, inherent accuracy I mean. But, I've found few full sized DA autos that couldn't do 3" or better with ammo they liked. I have heard the 147 grain stuff was better than other weight bullets on the average for accuracy, but I don't shoot 147. I get 115 grain FMJ stuff at Wallyworld for $5.97 a box of 50 and I shoot 115 grain +P JHP for carry.

I have handloaded bullets that were absolutely worthless in four or five guns. I have handloaded quite accurate 9mm bullets (Hornady XTP 115s for instance). Quality of the bullets in 9mm seems to vary a lot. My .45s were never terrible with about anything including my cast bullets, but I've tried several 9mm bullets in as many as 5 different guns that would NOT stabilize well, even one that would tumble and keyhole! I never really understood that 'cause it's hard to find a .45 bullet that wouldn't shoot at least OK in the three .45s that I've owned.
 
If you like 1911 style cocked and locked carry, you could get a normal CZ 75, CZ 75 SA, or CZ 75 compact. Nice single action trigger pull like your beloved1911.
 
Those dang CZ's shoot a hell of a lot better than they have any right to, and the ergonomics are fantastic.

Could be worse, I just picked up a G17 that shoots groups very nearly as good as my full custom built-from-scratch gun that cost 6 times more. Thank goodness the trigger isn't anywhere near as good, if I could use the accuracy at full speed I'd be really confused.
 
Gordon,

Get some 115gr FMJ Fiocchi and let us know how it groups. It's usually pretty cheap by the case and I've found it to be very accurate in the Beretta 92 pistols.

I think you can cut those group sizes a bit more...
 
well cz triggers are sweet but

they are not 1911 triggers! I really really love cz but factory cz sa ain't the same as 1911 sa.

I will take cz reliabilty over 1911 any day however. I have just seen too too many high dollar 1911 jam-o-matics.

flame on!

it is just my experience.
 
HSMITH gets the point. AND I just got my CZP01 lately, long after the Beretta oddesy began. The Beretta just LOOKS more accurate to me!:confused:
John SKA: the groupings I quote are best loads thru each gun, we know each gun has it's own eating preferences and YES the 124 grain loads seem a sweet spot for 9mmx19 and both of these are no exception. I never go lower than 115 grain anymore and rarely shoot those. Yes I have a Dillon 1000 and use it .147 grain loads take over reactive targets much better so my focus is there.
 
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Maybe YOU shoot some guns better than others.

I've got a Sig P226, a Kimber 1911, a Glock, a couple of CZ's, etc. But the weapon that works the very best FOR ME is a 35 year old S&W Model 10 revolver in .38 sp. All the Bar-Sto's in the world wouldn't change that.
 
I forgot to mention that no one should tell the USAMU that the Beretta 92 can't be accurate. They are getting an inch at 50 yards out of them, probably with just hope and luck though:rolleyes: :D :D :D
 
Try some 95gr Magtech JFP through your CZ, a lot of people here get excellent results with it in their 9mm guns. I have loaded some 95gr also and it shoots pretty good in my CZ. Well over 1300 fps, snappy but in no way punishing recoil (snappy but soft might describe it), simply easy to shoot.
 
Ditto on Mr. Smith's comments regarding the USAMTU. David Sams does some real neat stuff with the Beretta. samscustomgunworksusa.com

salty.
 
CZ

I just bought my CZP01, It will be my first 9mm in a long line of .45s and .40s, I couldnt ignore the massive amount of testing it passed to become Nato's new standard issue pistol. It is apparently the most succesfully abused pistol ever! :evil:
 
Depending on ammo, I can get both of my stock Italian 92's to shoot better than 2"...but perhaps between your ammo choice & shooting style your results vary. 2" still isn't bad, esp. as combat accuracy.
 
CZ Triggers

Champion Hammer + EGW Hard Sear + SA Trigger = Trigger that makes 1911 people think you're crazy for shooting such a light trigger

CZs can have just as good triggers as 1911s.
 
I'm not sure why you're dead set on the Beretta. The CZ is a tack driver out of the box if there ever was one. I think you could have gotten a boat load of mags & ammo for the price of your "upgrades" to the Beretta. Just my $.02

But the weapon that works the very best FOR ME is a 35 year old S&W Model 10 revolver in .38 sp.
Click to expand...

In terms of revolvers, I couldn't agree more. With the 4" heavy barrel, I can tear one big hole out with the Model 10 .38 sp. Even with those crude iron sights. It's a fantastic gun, IMO. My favorite revolver without a doubt.
 
I finally got the Beretta to shoot ragged hole groups at 25 yards- it took someone who had Ransom Rest grip inserts for it! :neener: Now I keep it for a 'Gentlemans Target Pistol' like a S&W952 or a Sig P 210 Single Action.
The CZPO-1 however, sits bedside withe SureFire 200 light attached with 13rounds of 127 grain Ranger +P+ Talon ammo:D
 
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According to a LEO acquaintance, the best 9mm load for self defence would be the 127 grain Winchester Ranger +P+.

Of course, that's just his opinion. ;)
 
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