With the added recoil, muzzle flash, noise and wear on your gun do you think 9mm+P ammo is worth it in order to have a marginal increase in velocity? I'm having a tough time deciding this one, so I'd like to gather some opinions and maybe gain some valuable insight.
9mm+P, is it worth it?
- Thread starter Ben86
- Start date
- Status
A lot of modern 9mm handguns are built for 9mm NATO (more or less +P). The wear will be marginal with a lot of guns on the market.
Muzzle flash varies from brand-to-brand. Recoil can be trained for.
There are seemingly a lot more options for defensive 9MM+P ammunition, so there's that. But if you're using it as a defensive round, go with what you're comfortable using. There's no point in having hotter ammo if you can't hit your target with it.
Muzzle flash varies from brand-to-brand. Recoil can be trained for.
There are seemingly a lot more options for defensive 9MM+P ammunition, so there's that. But if you're using it as a defensive round, go with what you're comfortable using. There's no point in having hotter ammo if you can't hit your target with it.
Nushif
Member
Meh. I never thought it was.
A standard 9mm is going to make the BGs day bad. A +P will probably make it worse, but not so much that I can justify the cost to practice with the things.
A standard 9mm is going to make the BGs day bad. A +P will probably make it worse, but not so much that I can justify the cost to practice with the things.
AZ Five seveN
Member
It just depends if you prefer slow and heavy or light and fast. There is no real noticeable difference in muzzle flash, at least not that I have noticed, and I carry Win Ranger-T 127gr +P+ in my 9mm.
The reason manufacturers developed 9mm +P and +P+ round is the original 115gr round was/is a subpar performer. Modern 9mm handguns can easily handle the increased pressure from +P and +P+ rounds, as long as the manufacturer says they can.
What are you carrying now?
The reason manufacturers developed 9mm +P and +P+ round is the original 115gr round was/is a subpar performer. Modern 9mm handguns can easily handle the increased pressure from +P and +P+ rounds, as long as the manufacturer says they can.
What are you carrying now?
Any modern handgun, well not something like the Rorbaugh, but that's not in any way a typical 9mm, won't show any noticeable increase in wear shooting +P 9mm.
As far as whether it's worth it to you from the shooter's standpoint, that's subjective. I've got to say I didn't usually notice much difference going from one to the other, I mean it was there but nothing that really stopped me from shooting any better.
As far as whether it's worth it to you from the shooter's standpoint, that's subjective. I've got to say I didn't usually notice much difference going from one to the other, I mean it was there but nothing that really stopped me from shooting any better.
Oh yeah if we're talking about defense ammo, I never saw a load that cost more for the +P version of the same thing. For instance, the 147 HST and the 147+P HST cost the same. The 124+P HST and 124 HST and the 147s cost the same. Gold Dots in standard or +P cost the same.
So actual cost was never a factor for me.
So actual cost was never a factor for me.
Right now I'm using 124 grain gold dots, standard pressure in both my CCW and HD pistol. I picked up some winchester 124 grain +P pdx1, but I'm not sure if I want to carry it. I guess I'll really have to shoot it to make sure, although I'd hate buying more. I have shot 9mm nato in my CCW (glock 26), is that comparable to shooting 9mm+P?
kev778
Member
Sounds like it's not worth it.
All I carry in my defensive 9mms are +P and +P+ loadings
I accept that they produce more wear to the gun and increase my maintenance level to accommodate that. The trade off is worth it to me for the handling qualities of the guns I choose to carry
I accept that they produce more wear to the gun and increase my maintenance level to accommodate that. The trade off is worth it to me for the handling qualities of the guns I choose to carry
Looking at the various gelatin test, both rounds will probably over penertrate so it is more on what you want to achievenot on is it better. Velocity is not translated into impactenergy unless it is 100% absorbed. That has been demostrated many times.
Talking at most 10% higher pressure than ordinary 9mm, not replacing your 9mm with a .45-70 Contender. No need to get crazy dramatic here.
I think you are the only person here who thinks deciding on an ammunition type makes someone sound like they have "Rambo Syndrome". +P JHP loads are absolutely ordinary, no one here is talking about trying to carry one of those Draco AK pistols or anything.
And I can't help but be put off by the disrespect you're showing a respected member of the THR community. I'm glad you had a good resolution the one time you shot someone, if it even happened, with your RNL .38, if it even exists, but try to lighten up Francis.
Uhhh... any of the decently designed 9mm JHP bullets wil most likely not overpenetrate. They, along with the 155-180 grain .40 and 185-230 grain .45 loads are at a nice sweet spot that easily allows bullet designers to get the performance they are looking for. 12-16" of penetration, expansion around 2x caliber, that's not overpenetration or wishful thinking, it's what's expected of a good service load today.
Frozen North
Member
I find the recoil very manageable in my Glock 26 with Winchester Ranger T 127 +p+. I find that the muzzle flash is LESS with this load than the standard ball ammo I plink with. The cheapest CCI blazers blow flames in the dark, this stuff is barely noticeable unless it is very dark outside.
Lemme get this straight, you think anything other than standard pressure 9mm and 158 grain round nosed lead .38 special is way overkill for personal protection? If you think a five to ten percent pressure boost for the 9mm is way overkill, what about .40? .357 Magnum? .357 Sig? .45 Auto?
I'm just curious why +P 9mm is way overkill to you.
ForumSurfer
Member
Same here.
I honestly don't notice much difference in recoil and muzzle flash. I just picked up 3rd plastic wonder weapon a few weeks ago, a gen4 glock 19. I'm over 1000 rounds into it (200 I'm guessing were =P or +p+) and when I wear it out I'll remember that someone said +p+ and +p were bad...but that should be about 8-10 years from now, or maybe never.
From the ballistics test I've researched, I hardly see where +p+ or +p is all rambo-fied. If it is, we better scrap 357 sig and 40 S&W, too.
Fisherdave10
Member
"At gun fighting distance of about 10 feet, that hot stuff is going to blow right through a bad guy and could cause unintended collateral damage. Not to mention the excessive wear and tear on your weapon. That just don't make good sense to me. "
@Uptown Come on, just because the "hot stuff" has slightly higher velocity than the standard version doesn't mean it is going to "blow right through" a bad guy. If more velocity = significant over penetration then why is a 125gr bullet at 1400 fps (357 Mag.) considered one of the best man-stoppers? If a .357 Sig blows right through a target just because it's so fast then why do the Federal Air Marshals use it? Why does the Secret Service use that caliber to protect the President? A Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124+P is 1,220fps. A standard 124 Gold dot is 1,150fps. I don't think a difference of 70fps will blow right through someone.
In all of the bullet testing I've seen whether it be on Youtube or on a manufacturer's website, a '+P' version may have slightly more penetration (sometimes less) and a slightly larger wound cavity. Also, bullets at a higher velocity seem to expand more reliably than the same bullet at a lower velocity. The increased likelihood of reliable expansion is one reason to carry +P in my book.
EDIT: Looks like Uptown is gone. Another troll bites the dust?
@Uptown Come on, just because the "hot stuff" has slightly higher velocity than the standard version doesn't mean it is going to "blow right through" a bad guy. If more velocity = significant over penetration then why is a 125gr bullet at 1400 fps (357 Mag.) considered one of the best man-stoppers? If a .357 Sig blows right through a target just because it's so fast then why do the Federal Air Marshals use it? Why does the Secret Service use that caliber to protect the President? A Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124+P is 1,220fps. A standard 124 Gold dot is 1,150fps. I don't think a difference of 70fps will blow right through someone.
In all of the bullet testing I've seen whether it be on Youtube or on a manufacturer's website, a '+P' version may have slightly more penetration (sometimes less) and a slightly larger wound cavity. Also, bullets at a higher velocity seem to expand more reliably than the same bullet at a lower velocity. The increased likelihood of reliable expansion is one reason to carry +P in my book.
EDIT: Looks like Uptown is gone. Another troll bites the dust?
Frozen North
Member
when shooting water jugs..... unscientific I know......
+p opened up more reliably and completely than standard pressure loads. I think that using standard pressure ammo in a modern pistol is selling the 9mm short.
+p opened up more reliably and completely than standard pressure loads. I think that using standard pressure ammo in a modern pistol is selling the 9mm short.
AZ Five seveN
Member
Dr. Roberts has tested nearly every JHP on the market, and these are the rounds that are proven to consistently expand, retain maximum weight and penetrate from 12"-18":
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)
You can see that there is a good mix of normal and +P round. It just depends on the round.
cheygriz
member
Many new guns, especially top of the line European models won't be 100 percent reliable until well broken in with the downloaded WWB or UMC.
+P is nothing more U.S. manufactured "standard pressure" ammo.
+P is nothing more U.S. manufactured "standard pressure" ammo.
Just wondering,.......
I'm just wondering what manufacturer will give you their blessing to shoot +P+ ammo through their guns? I know some say ok to +P but +P+? I sure don't know of any. +P+ isn't even a SAAMI rated round right?
________________________________________________________________________
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you!
I'm just wondering what manufacturer will give you their blessing to shoot +P+ ammo through their guns? I know some say ok to +P but +P+? I sure don't know of any. +P+ isn't even a SAAMI rated round right?
________________________________________________________________________
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you!
- Status
