9mm....please educate me

[sixgun MAK]

Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S@W or 45ACP? (I already own a Bersa 380)

What are the different 9mms?

What ammo/bullets for SD?

Thank you for your opinions and advice.

 

[bikerdoc]

Off the top of my head, without knowing any of your circunstances, I would say a 9mm would be the next step for you.

There are many models,and dont overlook used and police trade ins.
I will not put a glass of kool ade in front of you and recommend my favorite, but I would encourage you go hold, rent, and shoot some, until you find the one that says "I am for you"

Many options on ammo also. A good jacketed HP is probably best.

Sorry I wasnt much help. But picking out a gun is like eating an elephant, One bite at a time.

 

[dom1104]

yep. Take a look at Budsgunshop or some other online place and see what strikes your fancy.


Or, www.Gunblast.com for a guy who loves everything

Let me ease your mind re: the 9mm.

You probably will never need your gun in your lifetime.
Even if your gun comes out of the holster, you may not need to fire it.
If you DO need to open fire the chance that another caliber would do the job that the 9mm wouldnt, is remote.

So buy a GUN that you can carry 24/7, that you like, and that fits you.

That is 99% of the battle. A huge honking 10mm in the safe does nobody any good.

 

[mcdonl]

But picking out a gun is like eating an elephant, One bite at a time.

Bikerdoc... good pearl of wisdom...

sixgun, something that has made my shooting life much happier lately is I started reloading. of course there are many other attributes to consider between various calibers but if you were to consider reloading it would neutralize the cost issue which can be significant.

(Mine, my opnion... not right or wrong, just an opinion....)

I love 9mm's and they make plenty of good defensive rounds. Combined with the higher capacity magazines, lower ammo cost and ease of shooting it is my preferred round for SD.

 

[AKElroy]

When starting out in shooting, you may be tempted to "graduate" from perceived "low" power to "real" cartriges. Assuming the 9mm is the starting point, resist this track. In real life shootings, there is very little difference in one shot stop percentages between the 9mm, .40, .45.

I would NOT apply this logic to anything short of a 9mm, including the .380. The 9mm is a minimum cartrige in my view for SD / HD.

The additional controlability of the 9mm actually gives it the edge IMO. I have all three, and I feel very well defended with a 9mm; I have several. Find a 9mm that fits, load it with the right ammo (I like light & fast, 115 gr +P+) & you will be very well protected. Check out this site for some comparisons:

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0&Weight=All

Don't overlook one VERY important point; the 9mm allows MUCH cheaper practice. That is the single most important factor in cartrige effectiveness; a 9mm that you have shot A LOT is far more effective than a .40 that is too expensive to practice with.

 

[FullEffect1911]

9mm is not my pistol caliber of choice, but I am a fan of the .45. Even when I had a 40 S&W I still wanted a .45 auto (and I am a firm believer that a quality 9 +P+, .40 S&W and .45 auto are all on equal footing in stopping potential)

If I ever own a 9mm it will be in a Hi Power for collecting and target shooting purposes. But they come in all flavors, from 1911's to just about every poly pistol out there.

I don't think you'd regret the decision if you think a .380 is enough caliber or if you don't already really want particular cartridge next.

Off the top of my head the "best" current self defense bullet designs are probably the Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T and Corbon DPX.

I personally believe it's best to pick the handgun first and just take whatever caliber it comes in (9mm .40 or .45).

 

[roundoff]

My Experience

I made my first self defense handgun purchase fairly recently (< 1 year ago) and once I decided on a 9mm semiauto, these are the models I considered:

Sig P229
Kahr PM9
Springfield XD9
Glock G19/G26
Walther P99

I narrowed it down to the Glock and the XD; after shooting them both, I found I personally preferred the XD. I now own two, one with a 4" barrel and also the subcompact with a 3" barrel, which I carry daily.

I guess my advice boils down to this: make sure it's something you'll actually carry, and make sure you fire it first. Firing it may make you change your mind.

 

[SpodWo]

No problems with a 9mm - there are so many loads and frankly - you can get there by shooting a lot more 9mm at some reasonable price points. 9mm ammo is certainly available again and you can stock up with a boat load of it...

Many prefer to get a 124 or 147g of the JHP or special hollow points for SD that are readily available [albeit expensive].

And you can move up to +P ammo also.

I might add that you may want to consider getting a 9mm pistol that has the ability to shoot a .22 cal conversion barrel/slide. You can further refine your shooting skills and pay even less in ammo costs. This limits your choices of pistols [example - there are no XD or XDm Springfield Armory .22 conversions out there] but you can get the following in 9mms that have that ability:

CZ75
Glock
Beretta/Taurus PT92

Those are those that I know of off the top of my head.

Have at it...

 

[earlthegoat2]

The 9mm has many real world advantages and very few real world disadvantages.

There are a huge number of pistols chambered for the 9mm. Small little Rohrbaughs and big Beretta 92s and everything in between. 1911s are chambered for it as well as nearly every other full framed pistol type. What I am saying is that finding a 9mm pistol that fits you will be easy.

Second is that 9mm is more forgiving to shoot. In similar sized pistols a 9mm will be much easier to put more rounds on target in a shorter period of time then a 40 or 45.

The learning curve associated with the 9mm is smaller than with the 40 or 45 as well. They are easier to shoot well even among experienced 40 and 45 shooters.

The ammo is less expensive making frequent practice sessions more likely. It is better to be good with a less powerful cartridge than be mediocre with a more powerful cartridge.

Here is a quote I heard in a gun shop once. It is a joke but you will get the idea.
Customer: So I hear 9mm does not kill as good the bigger ones.
Worker: Are you kidding me? The 9mm has killed more people than cancer.

Moral of the story is this: The 9mm has been at it for 100 years and is still going strong. The largest police department in the country uses it. It will be adequate for self defense.

In a real world scenario if you hit the bad guy in the chest with a 9mm, a 40 or 45 in the chest is not going to do the job any faster. Trauma evidence of all calibers points to the fact that no matter the size of the hole the damage done is similar and just as devastating.

Classic 9mms like the Luger, Walther P-38, Browning Hi Power, Smith and Wesson 39 and the HK P7 rank high with collectors, shooters, and CCWers alike. I favor the 9mm over any other cartridge and that is after years of thinking the 45 was the only round in existence. I like Beretta 92s, CZ-75s, HK P9S, Glock 19, Steyr M and S9. Almost as a rule if it is chambered in 9mm it will be chambered in 40 as well. The 9mm is usually the first to be released. The introduction of the 40 into a pistol designed for the 9mm can sometimes cause balance and handling issues such as the Browning Hi Power and the HK P7. This is usually not the case though such as the examples from Glock and Springfield.

Guns like the Kahr K9, PM9, KelTec PF9, P11, and Taurus 709 make carrying 9mm handguns a breeze. Though I do not own any of these I think they would make excellent cary options if you chose to use a 9mm for defensive purposes.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

One of my pistols is a 9mm Springfield xD-M. I bought it a year ago because I wanted a pistol for the dual purpose of home defense and a range blaster. My decision to go with that particular brand and caliber were:

- 9mm is relatively cheap to shoot while still being good for defense.
- high capacity is always a plus
- lower recoil makes for good target shooting
- the brand was highly recommended and praised

A year later and over 3500 rounds down range and I can say I am absolutely happy with my decision. I have had ZERO malfunctions and the gun I a breeze to maintain. I have since picked up other guns in .45, .38/.357, .380, and 9mm Makarov, and the 9mm remains the most economical gun to shoot. (although I have to admit my 1911 in .45 is my favorite).

As far as 9mm pistols to consider in the sub $700 range, I'd say look into:

Springfield Armory
Glock
CZ
Beretta
FNH
...

 

[rha600]

the only part I hate about my 9mm is the difficulty in finding ammo down here in south Florida. Otherwise I absolutely love it. It shoots great, the GF likes shooting it (this could be considered a bad thing, haha) and it's inexpensive to shoot.

btw, I have a Beretta PX4 is that matters.

 

[easyg]

Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S&W or 45ACP? (I already own a Bersa 380).

In my honest opinion, yes, you will regret not getting a .40S&W or a .45ACP.

I'm not going to trash talk the 9mm because it really is a good self defense caliber.

HOWEVER....

There's a very good reason that the vast majority of law enforcement agencies have abandoned the 9mm in favor of other calibers such as the .40S&W, .45ACP, and the .357Sig.
Some are even choosing the .45GAP.
It's not because the 9mm is a poor caliber, it's just that some of the other calibers perform better at quickly stopping human aggressors with fewer hits.

Again, I'm not saying that the 9mm is bad, but I do think that you will find it somewhat lacking and wish that you had went bigger.
Especially when you're at the range and see guys smaller and weaker than yourself accurately shooting their .40's and .45's.

Just my honest 2 cent's worth.

Good luck,
Easy

 

[easyg]

the only part I hate about my 9mm is the difficulty in finding ammo down here in south Florida.

I haven't seen much on the shelves around here either (NC), and what I have seen is outrageously expensive.

 

[Lv4snobrdg]

my first pistol was a 9, I got pretty good with it, Beretta 92FS. I could drain the 15rd mag on target in just a few seconds. Really learned to tame the barrel lift.

After a few years though I wanted a lil more bang! Upped to a .45, probably never going back. I tell anyone who will listen that it is for patriotic reasons. The .45 is very USA and the 9mm not so much. lol

The 9 is a great place to start and stay, find a range that will rent to you!

 

[earlthegoat2]

It's not because the 9mm is a poor caliber, it's just that some of the other calibers perform better at quickly stopping human aggressors with fewer hits.

This is sound reasoning on the part of LE agencies who have a need for speed in training and cannot take the time to properly train an officer to make rapid accurate shots. This is the reason Glock type pistols are used as well over pistols with a more complicated manual of arms.

 

[sixgun MAK]

Thanks for all of the replies. I find your opinions to always be helpful.

 

[easyg]

This is sound reasoning on the part of LE agencies who have a need for speed in training and cannot take the time to properly train an officer to make rapid accurate shots.

No, I don't buy this notion at all.
Look at the agencies who do train extensively on making rapid accurate shots, agencies like the Secret Service and the FBI....they have also abandoned the 9mm as their primary handgun caliber.
With equal shot placement, the .40 and the .45 are still going to perform better than the 9mm.

This is the reason Glock type pistols are used as well over pistols with a more complicated manual of arms.

More complicated how?
Do you mean just flipping a manual safety, or lowering the hammer with a decocker after chambering a round?
That's not really a heck of a lot more complicated than using a Glock.
Heck, even the Army can teach an 18 year old novice to use a Beretta with decocker in just one week....it can't be that hard.

 

[earlthegoat2]

it can't be that hard.

Maybe not.

I just want to know why virtually all LE agencies are using Glock type pistols then and why almost all of them are in 40 and not 45. I know there are a few using 45 just as there are a few using 9mm still but they are exceptions to the rule. Why are there barely any LE agencies using pistols with manual safeties. Even the Beretta has fallen out of favor.

NO ONE is disputing that the 40 and 45 are more powerful. Anyone who can read can understand this. My objection to the whole thing is that given equal hits there is not going to be much of a difference between any of them. Shoot them in the arm and it is a bad hit regardless of the caliber. Shoot him in the spine and he is going down right now with a 50 AE or a 32 ACP. Penetration tests are even more eye opening in their similarities.

Once again this has drifted off into a caliber war but I guess that was the logical outcome for a thread like this.

Look at the agencies who do train extensively on making rapid accurate shots, agencies like the Secret Service and the FBI....they have also abandoned the 9mm as their primary handgun caliber.

Your right about about this but why did they do it. Was it events like the Miami Massacre?

The FBI HRT uses a Springfield 1911. They have also used Hi Powers. Why they abandoned them in favor of the 1911 is anyones guess. Maybe it was because the bad guys went down faster with 45 slugs and maybe not.

More complicated how?

This has been discussed at length on THR but the Glock is a "point and click" interface. No manual safety. Load magazine, cycle slide, aim, pull. 1911 Load magazine, cycle slide, engage safety, disengage safety, aim, pull.

I agree it does not seem that complicated but when you are talking police depts with limited training budgets and police officers who never fire their guns other than to qualify bi yearly ease of use is a big consideration.

 

[Leafy Cronmer]

Its always more comforting to have your round start in a 4, but I tend to keep the thought in the back of my mind. That accuracy and proper shooting will make a bigger difference than what caliber you are shooting.

I personally like 9mm its cheaper thus I am able to shoot more and become better with said round.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

Its always more comforting to have your round start in a 4, but I tend to keep the thought in the back of my mind. That accuracy and proper shooting will make a bigger difference than what caliber you are shooting.

I personally like 9mm its cheaper thus I am able to shoot more and become better with said round.

I often ask myself, in a one-one stand off, what would I rather have: my 1911 with 8 rounds and another mag of 7 back-up, for a total of 15 rounds of .45, or my xD-M with 20 rounds and another back-up mag with 19 more, for a total of 39 rounds of 9mm...?

 

[NMGonzo]

What platform?

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S@W or 45ACP?

No. With the 9mm you can have light recoil in a small gun, fit lots of them into bigger guns, and there are a lot of cool guns made for it.

What are the different 9mms?

While there are several other 9mm-caliber pistol cartridges, the only one you need to concern yourself with is the 9mm Luger (as it is usually known in the US, aka 9mm Parabellum or 9x19). I dislike the .40's harsh, "snappy" recoil in lightweight guns. I do like the .45, but the price of practice ammo is out of hand and you usually need a bigger gun carrying fewer rounds to hold it.

What ammo/bullets for SD?

This round needs a JHP (jacketed hollow point) for best results. FMJ (full metal jacket) is for the range only. Any good one is adequate (one of my favorites is the plain old Federal 9BP, a conventional 115-grain JHP at standard pressure), but the best performers seem to be the 115- or 124-grain JHPs in a +P loading.

 

[RebelRabbi]

Beretta, Glock, Ruger, S&W M&P, Sig, HK...........all work and all are good.

 

[Hatterasguy]

I'd go for the 9mm, your not under guned by any means with that round.

Load with some Federal Hydra Shok's and you have a deadly round. It will do the job if you do your part.

 

[Onward Allusion]

9mm would be the logical next step. There is a plethora of firearms available for this cartridge and it is still cheap enough to practice regularly with. Another advantage is that it has less kick than a 40 or 45 and offers an additional couple of rounds over a 40 and about twice as many rounds as a 45.

With that said, my caliber of choice is the 40S&W. It offers a good compromise between capacity & knock-down. I also like the 45 but I'm not as accurate with that caliber.

As for ammo, I'm old school and still prefer the Hydrashoks.

sixgun MAK
9mm....please educate me
Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S@W or 45ACP? (I already own a Bersa 380)
What are the different 9mms?
What ammo/bullets for SD?
Thank you for your opinions and advice.