9mm....please educate me

[benderx4]

I agree with the majority of the posters here, a good +P 9mm modern self-defense round will be more than you need for 99% of the scenarios you may encounter outside of law enforcement/military.

That being said, having owned and shot the majority of the guns suggested in this thread, I would humbly offer the following suggestions:

Low Budget - Used Springfield XD9

Moderate Budget - Beretta 92FS

High Budget - HK P30L

Whatever you get - practice, practice, practice! Good luck and happy shooting.

 

[easyg]

My objection to the whole thing is that given equal hits there is not going to be much of a difference between any of them. Shoot them in the arm and it is a bad hit regardless of the caliber. Shoot him in the spine and he is going down right now with a 50 AE or a 32 ACP. Penetration tests are even more eye opening in their similarities.

The notion that when given equal hits most bullets give the same results is just not true.
Regardless of what some folks might tell you, "penetration testing" cannot replicate the physiology and psychology of a living human.

But, for good or bad, the USA has had and continues to have plenty of real "life and death" shootings on its streets everyday.
And from all of those shootings it is obvious that the 9mm is simply not that great for quickly stopping and putting down the bad guys.

 

[wilkersk]

...{snip}... that you like, and that fits you....

Yup!

You won't believe what a difference it makes when you get something that actually fits your hand.

Better to have something that YOU are accurate with than to have something that makes a big boom, ... and misses.

 

[johnnylaw53]

But, for good or bad, the USA has had and continues to have plenty of real "life and death" shootings on its streets everyday.
And from all of those shootings it is obvious that the 9mm is simply not that great for quickly stopping and putting down the bad guys. "

I'm nowhere close to an expert but been around a few shootings and always like to reserch as much as I can fine on police shootings. Not sure why most LE agencies have gone away from the 9mm. One situration that stay in my mind was many years ago when most of our officers were still buying our own weapons. We had an escape the bg took the jailer weapon and highjack a car. We ended up in a big chase that ended in a cotton field. The bg took off running with quite a few of us running after him, he turned and pointed his weapon 3 officers open fire two using a .40 one a 9mm 15 rounds fired, 8 hit the guy. The deputy with the 9mm fire 4 times all of his round were center mass and the M.E. stated anyone of them would of been fatal the guys with the .40's missed or make non fatal hits. Now what need to be make clear is the guy with the 9mm was the only one of the three that shot a lot one reason he use 9mm was so he could afford to shoot more. I think most LE goes to bigger rounds since if they hit they think it a better chance the bg will go down faster. The real thing that will make the bg go down is solid hits I rather see agencies go back to 9mm if that what was needed to let thier officers shoot more due to cost. I know most here wont agree but look you guys are on the computer reading about guns and shooting if you were cops and you like the .45 that would be the best choice for you to carry but most here are active shooters and shoot a whole lot more then the average cop.

be safe

 

[Sapper771]

I usually try to keep one pistol in every major caliber. I think it is a good idea to diversify for versatility.
I recommend going to several gun shops/rental gun ranges and trying several pistols out. What I like, u may not. The features and ergos that I require may not be for you.
I carry Glock almost 100% of the time. I guess I have the flavor aid running through my veins. I use Glock because they work for me.
I have used XDs , M&Ps, 1911s, Sigs, CZs, etc.. All nice firearms, and I own several of them, but I carry a Glock because it works for me. Find what works for you, train with it, and carry it.

As far as the caliber debate, I always think to myself on which caliber I would rather be shot with......NONE OF THEM!
Shot placement is king with any caliber. For every instance where the 9mm has failed, one can provide another instance where 40, 357mag/sig, and 45 also failed. I was recently introduced to the "new to me" concept of "positive combat effect" . It basically states that any round that impacts the threat will have a positive combat effect on that threat . For example: the pain inflicted from a gun shot wound to the upper thigh demotivates the attacker, or forces the attacker to divide his attention(pain vs intent vs motivation vs future injury/death). I do believe in this idea( to an extent) as I have seen it many times on the job. One case stands out: Armed home invader took a clean shot through his kidney from a 38spl FMJ , home invader gets up off ground and fleas. Another: two room mates get into a fight, one produces a .22 automatic pistol and shoots the other in the chest once. Man with the gun shot runs out the front door and collapses in the neighbors yard. There are situations where the threat is so coked up that they literally do not feel anything...in this situation, no handgun caliber, short of getting a clean head shot, will be effective.

If you don't feel comfortable with a 9mm, don't carry it. It is important to feel confident with your chosen firearm and caliber. At the moment o' truth, u don't need doubt or hesitation.

 

[easyg]

Now what need to be make clear is the guy with the 9mm was the only one of the three that shot a lot one reason he use 9mm was so he could afford to shoot more.

No, that dog wont hunt.
There's just not that big of a difference in prices between 9mm and .40S&W ammo.
The only thing that is "clear" is that the .40 guys missed alot, for whatever reason.

But blaming the cost of ammo or the caliber for their poor performance is just nuts.
And if ammo cost and ease of shooting were the real determining factors, every cop would be carry a .22 pistol.

 

[earlthegoat2]

There's just not that big of a difference in prices between 9mm and .40S&W ammo.
The only thing that is "clear" is that the .40 guys missed alot, for whatever reason.

But blaming the cost of ammo or the caliber for their poor performance is just nuts.
And if ammo cost and ease of shooting were the real determining factors, every cop would be carry a .22 pistol.

I tend to agree with this. I think a LEO who is a shooting enthusiast would shoot a lot even if he had a 40 or 45 and would be commeasurately better regardless. I think I would look at it more like the guy who was a very experienced shooter had a 9mm and the two who were not as adept shooters had 40s. Still 9mm is less expensive and it could be just less expensive enough for one person to go to the range 20 or 30 times per year instead of maybe once or twice.

What I am getting at is lets say there are 2 people. One has a 9mm and one has a 40. The one with the 9mm will go to the range 20 times in a year and spend say 500 dollars on ammo. The one with the 40 who is afraid of ammo costs may only go twice a year and spend 40 dollars on ammo. We know who would be the better shooter right.

But here is how it really should work. Lets say they both spent 500 dollars on ammo. 9mm guy shoots say 3000 rounds and 40 guy shoots 2000. I think the difference in who is more proficient would be very narrow indeed.

Still you can make the physiology argument all you want but that also works if you are considering 40s and 45s. How person A reacts to 40s maybe different than how person B reacts to 9mm or 45s or 25s for that matter. I agree that in PURE numbers the 40 and 45 will cause more damage and are more powerful. Once again though I state, given equal hits the difference is going to be so negligible as to be almost no difference in the terminal effectiveness of these rounds.

 

[ForumSurfer]

9mm has been killing all sorts of people successfully for years.

And from all of those shootings it is obvious that the 9mm is simply not that great for quickly stopping and putting down the bad guys.

And neither is a 357, 45 or a 40. No handgun is going to magically drop a bad guy without a lucky shot that severs his spinal cord. The key to quickly stopping a bad guy is shot placement. Be comfortable and competent with whatever weapon you choose.

That being said, my ccw piece is a 45 that I feel very comfortable with. I can load it, shoot it weak or strong handed, field strip it, whatever it in the dark with confidence. My nightstand weapon, which obviously I trust with the life of my family is a high capacity 9mm. If I were LEO, I'd want a .40 since it is a nice compromise and I can still have 40+ rounds of ammo on my belt, readily accessible. All 3 calibers are excellent choices, you just can't go wrong. Lots of different agencies and military organizations have done extended testing with arguable and questionable results leading them to one caliber or another. It's just one long debate that never ends with 9mm vs 40 vs 45. From all the testing data and real world examples I have studied, the difference between all 3 is so negligible that I feel confident with either of the 3.

If you want stopping power, get a rifle. Handguns don't stop bad guys, they just kill them quickly. A few calibers might stop bad guys like .460 or S&W .500, but those calibers are so large that follow up shots aren't possible...and severe hearing damage will most likely happen should you ever fire them indoors without hearing protection.

 

[SOUTHPAW]

And neither is a 357, 45 or a 40. No handgun is going to magically drop a bad guy without a lucky shot that severs his spinal cord. The key to quickly stopping a bad guy is shot placement. Be comfortable and competent with whatever weapon you choose...

Surfer, I totally agree with you on shot placement. That being said, a penetrating shot to the heart or brain will drop a man, drug-crazed or not, just as fast as the spinal cord.

 

[basicblur]

Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S@W or 45ACP?

I’d say no-over the years I’ve tended to move down in caliber as the quality of SD ammo and magazine capacity has increased. My last CC purchase was an XDSC9 (was carrying XDSC40). My early model XDSC40 held 1 more round than the XDSC9 (I’d rather have 9 rds of 40 than 10 rds of 9mm), but since they changed the mags on the 9 (upped the capacity by 3 rds), I’ve gone from the 40 to the 9. Capacity was a partial reason-the 40 (‘specially in a sub-compact) tended to have a bit of muzzle flip, the 9mm much less so-makes for easier double-taps etc.
And before anybody gives you the false argument ‘bout “I’d rather hit ‘em with a 40 or 45 than miss with a lot of 9mm”, I don’t plan on missing with either caliber, but those extra rounds could come in handy!
Convential wisdom says 40 tends to "snap", 45 to "push"-I'd have to concur. Should you go the "4" route, you might consider such-many folks prefer the push of the 45 to the snap of the 40.

What are the different 9mms?

You’ll get tons of answers on this one-I tell a lot of new owners rather than try to sort out the myriad of choices, focus on a highly rated one (doesn’t mean you have to buy it), then when you go shopping, ask yourself why you should buy the particular model you’re looking at over your baseline?
I just helped a newbie go from an LCP to an XDSC9-didn’t tell him to buy it, just showed him the features and told him to use it as a baseline when shopping-he ended up with the XDSC9. Only “bad” thing I can see for the XDSC line is they are tending to get a little thick for CC, ‘specially when compared to Kahr etc.
He chose 9mm for controllability, ammo prices, and he wanted something his wife could shoot without being intimidated.

What ammo/bullets for SD?

Again, you’ll get a variety of answers-don’t know that there’s a whole lot of difference between most name brand SD ammo? In my neck o’ the woods, it’s easier/cheaper to find Gold Dots, usually at police supply stores, some of which sell 50 rd boxes for what many are selling 20 to 25 rd SD boxes for. You might check out Ammunition To Go online for some comparison pricing-a group of locals went together and got enough from ‘em to split shipping costs, but I’ve since found a local store with similar prices.

 

[Ben86]

Would I regret getting a 9mm instead of a 40 S@W or 45ACP? (I already own a Bersa 380)

What are the different 9mms?

What ammo/bullets for SD?

Thank you for your opinions and advice.

I don't know, I know I haven't. If you are comfortable with .380 I don't think you will regret it at all.

I'm not sure what you mean by: what are the different 9mms? I can tell you that 9mm has a superb selection of different types of ammo.

The best ammo for SD is of course a jhp of some sort of premium design and reputable company. My favorite is speer gold dot. I use 124 grain for barrels 4"+ and 115 grain for barrels -4".