9mm Powder Measuring and Bullet Seating

[DMW1116]

I’ve spent evenings over the last week loading up 9mm rounds. One is a 147 grain RMR HMW over HS6 and the other is a Gallant 135 grain coated lead bullet over W231.

The Gallant bullets are round nose and seem to seat more consistently than the RMR bullets. It’s not a large difference but the range of COAL was slightly larger with the RMR bullets. Maybe 0.005” larger range. Are round nose bullets the default shape for generic 9mm dies, in this case Lee.

Also, metering HS6 was considerably more variable than W231. I didn’t fight the HS6 but it varied over the coarse of the batch, to the point I threw charges and trickled up for the last dozen or so.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Maybe 0.005” larger range

Which press are you loading on?

Are round nose bullets the default shape for generic 9mm dies, in this case Lee.

You're paint with too board a brush. While it may be the default shape for Lee seating dies, I wouldn't include "all generic" dies...whatever you mean by that term.

Many dies have/provide separate seating stems for FN bullets like the HMW or you could use a seating die which has a stem that contacts the bullet at the ogive

 

[AJC1]

My assessment of why would be based on bearing surface. The amount of 147 bullet in the case is much higher. I never loaded 147s in 9mm I almost always used mmw or cast 115s. LiveLife has probably loaded enough 9mm of every weight to instantly know...

 

[AJC1]

Which press are you loading on?


You're paint with too board a brush. While it may be the default shape for Lee seating dies, I wouldn't include "all generic" dies...whatever you mean by that term.

Many dies have/provide separate seating stems for FN bullets like the HMW or you could use a seating die which has a stem that contacts the bullet at the ogive

I always used my wad cutter stem from 38s swapped into my 9mm dies for all large flat meplat bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

Are round nose bullets the default shape for generic 9mm dies, in this case Lee

Yes.

But Lee 9mm bullet seating stem has hole at the bottom to push on RN bullet further down from the tip and also work with SWC/FP bullets to produce pretty consistent OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-on-pistol-loads.904700/page-3#post-12277702

9mm ... 147 grain RMR HMW ... Gallant 135 grain coated round nose

LiveLife has probably loaded enough 9mm of every weight to instantly know...

Max/Working OAL should be determined using the "plunk test" - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

And not every weight. Dependent on leade length of barrel - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-12249361

• Canik Mete SFX
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.100"
  
  
• Glock 22 KKM conversion barrel
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.130"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.135"

• Glock 22 Tactical Kinetics conversion barrel
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.060"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.115"
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.075"

• Glock 23/Lone Wolf conversion barrel
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.055"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.108"
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.065"

• M&P Shield
  • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.115"
  • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.160"
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.130"

• SIG P320 X5/Bar-Sto Match 5" Barrel
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.040"

• Taurus PT-809
  • Xtreme 135 gr RNFP: 1.145" - 1.135"

 

[DMW1116]

The RMR HMW was seated to 1.1” based on the data for a 147 grain XTP. When seating, it ranged from 1.094” to 1.103”. The Gallant was seated to 1.15” based on Hodgden data for a 135 grain Acme LRN. These ranged from 1.145” to 1.155”, but most were in the 1.149”-1.152” range. I checked the first 10 then checked every 10th after I felt the COAL was stable. Given those values it doesn’t appear they were as different as I thought.

The Gallant load was developed for my M&P9 while the RMR load was for a Canik Mete. I don’t know if the Mete will chamber the longer Gallant cartridges but the M&P9 and Shield will chamber the RMR load. I’ll try them this weekend and see. For what it’s worth, my 223 Remington and 308 Winchester dies seat FMJ bullets to more consistent COAL values than match bullets, but that seems like a function of the shape of the match bullet noses more than anything. The shape of the Sierra Match all goes is well known for appearing different bullet to bullet, even within the same box.

 

[DMW1116]

Which press are you loading on?


You're paint with too board a brush. While it may be the default shape for Lee seating dies, I wouldn't include "all generic" dies...whatever you mean by that term.

Many dies have/provide separate seating stems for FN bullets like the HMW or you could use a seating die which has a stem that contacts the bullet at the ogive

I’m using a Lee O shaped single stage press. It came in the reloading starter kit I found right as the pandemic was getting started.

 

[lordpaxman]

I’m interested to know what press and powder measure as well. The RMR 147 heavies can identify as wasp waist shapes depending on brass and dies.
What COL are you loading to? Any powder that doesn’t measure consistently enough in my measure is replaced with one that does.

 

[DMW1116]

I got the Lee anniversary kit with their safety scale and entry level powder measure. I think it was the Breechlock kit. The powder measure does well with H335 (which one doesn’t), CFE Pistol, CFE 223, 2400, and Titegroup. It seems to struggle a little with HS6. Silhouette works but I haven’t used it enough see any patterns or peculiarities.

 

[Charlie98]

and entry level powder measure.

The Lee Perfect Powder Measure?

 

[N555]

Hand gun bullets can easily be plus or minus 5 thousands.

 

[DMW1116]

The Lee Perfect Powder Measure?

Yes, pretty sure that's the one.

 

[Charlie98]

Yes, pretty sure that's the one.

I got beyond frustrated with the PPM... it wouldn't measure Unique worth a foop. It might do OK with ball powders and such, but I wasn't in the mood to dink with it, trying to get a reliable drop out of it. Sold it off many years ago and moved on to my Hornady.

 

[LiveLife]

Gallant load was developed for my M&P9 while the RMR load was for a Canik Mete. I don’t know if the Mete will chamber the longer Gallant cartridges but the M&P9 and Shield will chamber the RMR load.

Oh good. We have some "knowns" to cross reference the "Barrel ... Max/Working OAL" thread and below post is an example of how the cross referencing would work for future FYI/other members needing max/working OAL reference.

The RMR HMW was seated to 1.1” based on the data for a 147 grain XTP. When seating, it ranged from 1.094” to 1.103”. The Gallant was seated to 1.15” based on Hodgden data for a 135 grain Acme LRN. These ranged from 1.145” to 1.155”, but most were in the 1.149”-1.152” range.

We have these knowns:

• Canik Mete SFX
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.100"

• M&P Shield
  • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.130"

Which means Canik has slightly shorter leade similar to Tactical Kinetics which chambered RMR 147 gr FP MW at 1.075". Since we have other bullet Max/Working OAL data, we can correlate what could work for your pistols with the two bullets.

Gallant 135 gr RN is no lube ring coated bullet with longer more pointed nose - https://gallantbullets.com/products/135gr-round-nose

Tactical Kinetics fed/chambered Winchester/Zero 115 gr FMJ at 1.135" and RMR 115 gr FMJ at 1.140" so 1.140"-1.165" could be the max working OAL range for Canik Mete using Gallant bullet. Of course, using the barrel and function testing by feeding dummy rounds from magazine will ultimately reveal what the max/working OAL should be.

As to M&P9, since Shield chambered all FMJ/RN bullets to 1.169", whatever works in Canik Mete should also work in M&P9.

 

[DMW1116]

I got beyond frustrated with the PPM... it wouldn't measure Unique worth a foop. It might do OK with ball powders and such, but I wasn't in the mood to dink with it, trying to get a reliable drop out of it. Sold it off many years ago and moved on to my Hornady.

It measures most powders pretty well, even if it does leak a little. HS6 is the most frustrating one I’ve tried so far, except before I learned stick powders don’t mix well with most powder measures. My first load in 223 was a crunchy mess. IMR 4064 and a 75 grain HPBT. It crunched when I seated the bullet (compressed) and it crunched when I dropped the powder (cutting kernels I guess) and made me more nervous than a fire breather in an ammo plant. They shot so well I just kept sweating and mumbling prayers when I made the first big batch.

@LiveLife i did a plunk test on the 135 grain Gallant in the Canik Mete and it seems to work. I’ll shoot a handful to be sure today.

 

[Charlie98]

It measures most powders pretty well, even if it does leak a little.

Understand, I'm not Mr. Precision or anything, but the PPM wouldn't satisfy even my meager standards.

 

[DMW1116]

Depending on how frustrating it gets I may look for a different one. It was pretty good with Titegroup and W231.

Speaking of Titegroup, it turned in a good group with the RMR HMW.

And for science, I ran three of the Gallant loads through the Canik. They all cycled and were pretty accurate.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Understand, I'm not Mr. Precision or anything, but the PPM wouldn't satisfy even my meager standards.

I have and use a PPM, used one for decades. I have taken some in with 'lot' trades and purchases, sold some and gave some away to beginners. I still have 2.

Maybe I've been lucky, but I've not had any trouble with the PPM. It does certainly take some getting used to, some adjusting, and absolutely a very close reading if the instructions on drum adjustment.

I've used it to load stick (4895), ball (HS-6 and H110) and also flake (Promo) powders. I've experienced some minor leakage with H110, but have gotten very good results with other powders, and no leakage.

Years ago I was loading 223 with IMR 4895. I got to the point I stopped checking the powder drop; it was always within .2gr in a 24.0gr drop - good enough for casual shooting.

In my experience, a bit of practice and adjustment goes a very long way with the PPM.

 

[lightman]

I loaded 9MM last week with Unique and my charges varied .2th of a grain on the ones that I spot checked. (about every 20 or 30) I know from experience that this doesn't hurt anything but.............!

I going to look for a replacement for Unique once I run out. Its going to be hard! It just works............ And I've been using it for 40 something years!

 

[DMW1116]

I’ll have to shoot them at longer range to see if it makes a difference. At 10 yards, whatever difference there is in charge didn’t show.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I going to look for a replacement for Unique once I run out.

Give a look at BE-86. It is excellent for most of the uses of Unique and it meters very well

 

[9mmepiphany]

At 10 yards, whatever difference there is in charge didn’t show.

25 yards is pretty much the minimum and 50 yards is even better

 

[DMW1116]

I'll have to air them out later. I only had three rounds for a function check. Chamber, fire, lock on empty: check. 25 is my typical test distance for pistols, as that's where the pistol range stops at my local range.

 

[Charlie98]

I loaded 9MM last week with Unique and my charges varied .2th of a grain on the ones that I spot checked. (about every 20 or 30) I know from experience that this doesn't hurt anything but.............!

I going to look for a replacement for Unique once I run out. Its going to be hard! It just works............ And I've been using it for 40 something years!

Are you looking for a replacement for just the 9mm? ...or do you have other cartridges?

Honestly, I went through the same process...to find a replacement for Unique specifically in 9mm and .45ACP. I came right back around to Unique. As you say... It just works.

 

[lightman]

Give a look at BE-86. It is excellent for most of the uses of Unique and it meters very well

I keep hearing about BE-86. Its defiantly on my radar.

Are you looking for a replacement for just the 9mm? ...or do you have other cartridges?

Honestly, I went through the same process...to find a replacement for Unique specifically in 9mm and .45ACP. I came right back around to Unique. As you say... It just works.

Good question Charlie. I use Unique for mid range loads in 357, 41 mag, 44 mag and 45 Colt. I would like to find a replacement that would do all of those.