9mm primer possible pressure signs

[DBEAM]

The picture looked a lot clearer before but can anyone tell if that looks like a pressure sign? both pictures are of the same primer. I loaded some 9mm 124 tcg bayou coated bullets with 4.0 grains of titegroup with an oal of 1.145 and didn't realize until after I had shot 34 of them that the bullets were hitting the rifling when chambered. They were fired out of a Taurus pt111 pro and maybe 1/3 of the primers looked like this, unfortunately I do not have any factory fired ammo to compare at this time. The primers are cci 500.

 

[Jim K]

Those primers show no signs of high pressure. They do show signs of a light firing pin strike, not enough to cause misfires, but light enough that the primer internal pressure can push the firing pin back and force itself into the firing pin hole. Without examining the gun, I can't tell the exact cause, and it might not matter unless the primer starts to blow out and let crud and parts of the primer back into the firing pin tunnel and cause misfires.

Jim

 

[DBEAM]

That might explain why it is fails to fire several brands of ammo occasionally. Has never failed on gold dot, federal, or any of my reloads using the cci primers. It failed to fire 2-3 round out of 100 wwb before and they would not go off on repeated attempts with same gun, did the same with brassmaxx and some foreign ammo my brother and law got before.

 

[gamestalker]

It's really difficult to use primer flow as a pressure indicator for AL-ing handgun cartridges. By the time the primer begins to show distinguishing flow characteristics, pressures are usually already over the top. I can comfortably read primer flow on brass fired from a solid breach face weapon, like a single shot or a revolver, but AL-ing weapon primer flow can be quite difficult to read, and IMO, therefore, it can be a rather challenging means of monitoring pressures.

I would recommend using a chrony, then compare the velocities with real tested data. I send all loads across a chrony during the development phase, and honestly, the correlation between loads that should be showing signs, and those that shouldn't, is usually pretty consistent with the velocity and pressure estimates published with the data. I trust the guys that develop publish the data, they get paid the big bucks, and they use some rather expensive equipment to make these determinations.

GS

 

[Steve C]

I have an older PT92 Taurus that shows the same crater looking primers as they flow into the too generously relieved firing pin hole. No problem with reliability or reloading later on. Makes it easy to tell what brass came from that gun.

 

[Nordeste]

Each and every case fired from my 92 FS looks like that. As others have said, it has to do with the firing pin hole. No overpressure on your cases.

 

[iagbarrb]

I also do not believe you have preassure problems. Take a look at your firing pin. Cleaning of the pin and spring? Short pin? Issue with the hammer?

 

[Dudedog]

The edges of the primer still look nice round. If they were flattened that would be bad. As noted earlier by the time they are flattened you can be way hi.

Hodgdon shows 4gr of Titegroup as a MAX load with 125 lead at a shorter OAL 1.125
Hard to say by primers only but I think you are ok.

 

[cosh]

See many like that with range pickup brass, factory. 9mm. IMHO many pistols have some room near the FP making the ring.

 

[filter777]

I have an older PT92 Taurus that shows the same crater looking primers as they flow into the too generously relieved firing pin hole. No problem with reliability or reloading later on. Makes it easy to tell what brass came from that gun.

That is a typical pin strike from a Beretta. The primers always look like that.

 

[filter777]

From experience, I have noticed a couple of my striker fire pistols with light strike issues and misfires, including my XDm. I remedied that issue by using Federal primers (both standard and match) as they are a softer primer. I haven't had an issue since. You might want to give that a try.

 

[sniper58]

My cases fired from a TNW Aero Survival Rifle look the same as the photos shown here.

 

[Rule3]

If it has failed to fire with factory ammo then unfortunately it needs to go back to Taurus and get the pin and or spring fixed/replaced. If it was just your reloads I would say it was primer seated to high.

I do not envy you that!

Years ago I had the same gun and it ate and fired anything, The issue with Taurus is the owner has to pay the damn shipping. Perhaps you local FFL will send it via USPS priority mail for a lot less than UPS/FedEX and you may get it back in your lifetime,

 

[DBEAM]

I just had my 1st failure with my reloads using cci primers in it the day before yesterday. I have a firing spring coming and will check the gun out then, I've read sometimes there is junk in the striker channel and sometimes the firing pin is week. I have a few bullets it didn't set off that I will try after I have installed the new spring. I really don't want to send it off for the not having it more then the shipping. It has still yet to not fire a gold dot and it has been through more then a 100 of those.

 

[DBEAM]

I disassembled my pt 111 pro last night and found some junk in the striker channel but not an alarming amount but when looking down the striker channel it looks almost like it was not completely machined. It appeared as if there was a piece of metal left at the end of the channel on the right side but its hard to tell. I decided I would try the new firing pin spring but found it is useless for my pt111 pro because the firing pin spring is a part of an assy that I see no way to take a apart. I tried to order the assy today and a back up recoil spring while I was at it from Taurus when I was told due to a recall I can not buy parts currently or send the gun in through them. Filled out a form here https://www.tauruscartersettlement.com/ and am waiting to here my options.

 

[lmstncwby]

That primer is perfectly normal. My friend's Ruger P-95 9mm produces the same cratering pattern. Primers, because of variations in cup metal alloys, are not a reliable indicator or chamber pressure. You were at max load and no major pressure signs.

 

[gamestalker]

I thought I would add that after inspecting the pictures, not only do those primer strikes look shallow and light, and that at least in this instance, primer flow can be considered supportive in illustrating an example of very anemic pressures.

I would have that firing pin issue addressed.

I don't know what to say about the apparent low pressure situation, the 4.0 gr, charge of Tight Group is .1 gr. under max for a plated bullet as per Hodgdon. So it's certainly appears that the charge is more than adequate to produce a typical pressure load. To that I must ask if the OP has weighed the charges on a beam scale to confirm they are 4.0 grs., and not 3.5 or something.

GS

 

[ku4hx]

One of my surplus FEG High Powers shows cratering on even the lightest loads. After a lot of testing with various primers, powders and charge weights, I was just stumped. Then, in a flash of insight, it occurred to me this was not happening with any of the test ammunition in any other 9mm. So I looked closely at the hole the firing pin protrudes through to hit the primer.

On that one FEG HP, the hole was noticeably larger in diameter than all others. No scientific determination by any means, but my conclusion is "soft" primer cup metal is being allowed to "flow" back through the larger firing pin hole quite easily and producing the "cratering".

I also found a few comments around the web that supported this conclusion.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Looks to have been fired in Beretta or Taurus 92 clone. Firing pin hole dimpled to prevent firing pin pinch due to unlocking mechanism design and operation.Loads look to be low pressure.