9mm Self Defence Ammo

thejunk4bob · Feb 5, 2008

I have a Taurus PT 111 Pro 9mm and am looking to get some information on the difference in bullets between manufacturers. I have decided against getting +p. I had decided to get Federal Classic 115 grain JHP (9bp) because it is tried and true reliable but the best price I can find on it is about 14.50 for a box of 20 rounds. It looks like Fiocchi 115 grain JHP (9APHP) is the same price for 50 rounds. Is there a difference between these two rounds or other 115 grain (JHP) rounds as far as reliablity and effectiveness or are all 115 grain JHP pretty much the same? Thank you for any useful insight.

prolanman · Feb 5, 2008

Take look at the Federal HST. I like the 147gr. They performed very well in tests. The expansion and retained weight specs are impressive. You can get these at ammunitiontogo.com for around $18.95 a box of 50.

dewidmt · Feb 5, 2008

Any of the 115gr HP's from a major manufacturer are gonna be decent nowadays. I like the Winchester White Box 115 gr JHP. You can get them from Wal-mart for about $15.00 per 50.

WARPARTY36 · Feb 5, 2008

Sholiz · Feb 5, 2008

I carry 147gr WWB from Wal*Mart, I would carry 115gr but they did not have any in stock.

thejunk4bob · Feb 5, 2008

Thanks for the input

My barrel is only 3 1/4 inches. My understanding is that 147 grain is for longer barrel guns, and doesn't get accelerated enough by a short barrel to reliably expand. I am planning on going with a 115 grain or 124 grain for this reason but am leaning toward 115 grain. I am basically woundering if all 115 grain work the same. Thank you for your input.

spiroxlii · Feb 6, 2008

I carry 147gr WWB JHPs, which are $15 for a box of 50.

The thing about 147gr bullets being too slow to expand when fired from a handgun may have been true at one time, but modern bullet design has improved that. Winchester USA (White Box)147gr subsonic (only 950fps) 9mm JHP rounds seem to expand quite reliably in gelatin tests when fired from a handgun.

If you prefer to go with a 115 or 124gr bullet, you will still be getting a potent round, but a lot of folks who go with the lighter bullets will recommend +P ammo, which you said you want to avoid. You can still find good standard pressure 115 and 125gr ammo, though. As long as you go with a reputable brand, you should get reliable expansion from standard pressure rounds.

I personally trust (and would carry) Remington Golden Saber, various rounds loaded with the Gold Dot bullet (CCI/Speer, Georgia Arms), Federal Hydrashok or HST, and Corbon DPX to name just a few. My reason for carrying "cheap" WWB ammo is that it performs consistently, so I'd be crazy to spend twice as much on the "fancy" carry ammo. WWB is cheap enough that I can practice with the same stuff I carry.

usp9 · Feb 6, 2008

I've come to like the Hornady TAP ammo. It uses the tried and true XTP bullet which produces the best accuracy (for me), no feed or eject problems and has a very low flash. I carry the Hornady 124gr TAP FPD rounds.

Phelptwan · Feb 6, 2008

I use Corbon DPX

CypherNinja · Feb 6, 2008

I haven't carried it yet (need leather), but I have two boxes of Double Tap 124gr. Gold Dots for my CZ.

I'm going to order more after I get a belt/holster, it's cheap enough to get some decent practice in with your carry load.

Koblenz · Feb 6, 2008

I have recently ordered a lot of Federal HST 124 grain +P 9mm from Ammo to Go. The price is $18.95 per box, which is much less than I see that or similar ammunition priced at gun shops and gun shows. Georgia Arms sells a load using CCI Gold Dot 124 +P that should be identical to the the actual CCI load, but costs a lot less. $17.75 for 50 if my memory is correct.

BTW, if you want to duplicate the 124 grain +P handling of the HST, CCI, etc. loads, you can buy the Georgia Arms Nato Spec 124 grain for less than $10 for 50. Same bullet weight and velocity, but cheaper for practice.

possum · Feb 6, 2008

there are many great opinons listed above. i like to test out different loads, for reliability in the gun of choice 1st and foremost, shooter controalbility and since they are standard pressure you should have no issue with that, and then accuracy. test them out and see what works best in the gun.

check out gloden sabers, federal hydra shoks, speer gold dots, and the gold dot short barrel offerings, hornaday tap, and xtp offerings there are many fine rds out there.

thejunk4bob · Feb 6, 2008

Thank you guys for the helpful input. Does anyone know how reliable Fiocchi ammo is in general and/or in the 115 grain jhp (9APHP)?

moph759fl · Feb 6, 2008

Federal Premium 9mm +P+, 124gr Hydra-Shok JHP (P9HS3G) in my Beretta 9000S, Kel-Tec PF9. Speer Lawman Ammo, 9mm, 147gr Gold Dot HP in my S&W 3913.

DerbyDale · Feb 6, 2008

Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement Only +P+ ammo.

It's rated one of the top performers and is not as expensive as some of the other premium SD loads. My XD-9 loves it.

Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 10 or 15 years ago. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's

EDIT:
Some of the top choice of 9mm SD rounds:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Corbon DPX JHP (Copper Bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP (53619)
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

jaydubya · Feb 6, 2008

Because my 9mm Hi Power is 41 years old, I keep standard pressure Speer 124gr Gold Dots in it. As Stephen Camp told me, this load is used by the New York Transit Police.
Cordially, Jack

Blue Brick · Feb 6, 2008

9mm, 147 Gr, JHP/XTP Bullet

CU74 · Feb 7, 2008

My wife's "home defense" rounds are Winchester Black Talons, given to her by her ex-LEO cousin. (He drank the Black Talon Cool-Aide.) In the unlikely event she uses them all up, Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabers, or Winchester Rangers are likely replacements.

Mainsail · Feb 7, 2008

If you ask in a forum you will get a wide variety of suggestions, all of which are good. If you do the research yourself you will buy the Federal HST 147gr (the non +P). HSTs are the newest technology, hydrashocks are older but still deadly. That’s what it really boils down to though, very very minor degrees of difference.

ARK9mm · Feb 7, 2008

This is raw data from the FBI ballistic tests.

Is there somewhere to get this information off the web? I know absolutely nothing about what most of you guys said and would like to learn. I think looking at this information after I have the knowledge to digest it would be helpful. Thanks.
CH

rollback88 · Feb 7, 2008

Hope this helps, here is an excellent site:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/

And another:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

My concern with 9mm has always been over-penetration (for in-home defense especially). The tests on 124gr and 147gr JHP (Golden Sabre and Hydra Shok) have stats that are ever so close to .357 for penetration and expansion. 124 gr just over 1000 fps and the 147 right around 900 fps.

I have chosen 147gr Federal Hydra Shok. 17 round mag capacity with bullet velocity of 45acp with the expansion (around .57 to .60) of .357mag.

--jcd

Rampant_Colt · Feb 7, 2008

For OTC [over the counter] ammo i suggest 124gr +P Remington Golden Sabre or Speer Gold Dots, OR the same in 147gr - and don't worry, Remington, Winchester, Speer, etc.. engineers took into consideration that these loads will be used in short barrel guns and have a 'velocity window' in which they will expand.

For LEO ammo i suggest Winchester +P+ 127gr, or 147gr Ranger T, or Federal HST 147gr.

Most 115gr loads are too shallow penetrating , and forget about the Fiocchi ammunition - stick to proven duty loads like Gold Dot, Ranger , Golden Sabre..etc.

sm · Feb 7, 2008

I go about ammunition choices different than most.
I go about it, as I was mentored as a kid born in the mid 50's.

Semi-Auto handguns:
Magazines are part of what allows a gun to run.

The gun is manufactured to accept certain spec's and to shoot POA/POI (point of aim/point of impact) certain grain weights.

The gun has to feed, extract, repeat. Period!
It does no good to have ammunition, no matter how good it is supposed to be, if it does not feed, extract, repeat.

Add - in order to get quick effective hits, shot placement if you will, having the bullet shoot POA/POI is best.

In a stressful situation, it is not a good idea to have to remember a load shoots low, or high...

Now my method is, and having shot a variety of semi-auto and various makes, of guns and ammo, to have a starting point based on experience.
Live long enough, and do something long enough, this happens, no matter what the subject matter is.

I shoot loads, with all the magazines I will use with a gun, to investigate and verify, feed, extract, repeat, POA/POI.

Each gun barrel, differs /can differ. One has to know what their gun does with what.

Over the years, and from any 9mm semi, my and mine experiences show the Old Win 115 gr STHP feeds, extracts and repeats in so many guns.
It may not always be the best at POA/POI, still Taurus, Beretta, BHP, Kel-Tec P-11, Ruger , Glock, Sigs, HKs...etc, run this loading.

I know many hate that load from a serious tragedy , still the fact remains this load runs.

Now for me, I and mine, in a work, had/have a legit need to carry hardball.
It has to do with one-way mirrors and security glass and such.
Hardball deflects less...for starters...

Personally, I prefer standard pressure loadings and 124 gr.

Quick Effective Hit :

Smaller guns and poly framed guns such as P-11s and G26 get "thumpy" with 147 grainers and /or +p loadings.
For many shooters, and it depends on shooter, hands, shooting experiences, wrist/hand strength, stamina, and any physical limits (surgery, arthritis, etc) these 147 grainers and /or +p loadings do not afford shooters with such guns the best quick effective hits.

Applies to any caliber, this bullet weight and +p loading.
Win 185 gr STHP is another that feeds , extracts, repeats, and has less felt recoil in 45ACP guns too...for example.

Win White Box, Personal Defense in 115 gr is just like the 115 gr STHP, just the bullet is alloyed different.
We chrono'd, we shot the Scientific Mud/Dirt Test , with and without the "skin and bones" part , and have recovered bullets from critters and honest to goodness, the darn ammo perfomed the same.
Only the QC is a bit better on the STHP.

Federal's 115 gr JHP [9BP ?] ( forget) is another sleeper that works in a vast array of guns.
Fiocchi does as well.

Understand, a lot of my perspectives comes with new shooters, assisting new shooters and CCWs folks , and some with budgets.
Abused and batter ladies, sexual assault and rape victims, single mom's with kids...
Physically Limted folks mugged, attacked.
Elderly...

I /we thought of budgets, not just the guns, also ammo for quality lessons, practice and carry.

Put it this way, a lot of folks got a good used police trade in S&W 3913 and shot WWB for practice and carried/carry WWB Personal Defense 115 gr JHP or
Fed American Eagle and carry/carried that Fed 9BP load - the 115 gr JHP.

Nothing wrong with nicer guns and ammo, just the correct basics come into play on everything and ...
My role is to do what I do, though some look down on the guns and ammo, and other gear I and mine and students/folks end up with.

Regards,

Steve

Deanimator · Feb 7, 2008

I'm a big fan of the Winchester white box 147gr. jhps they sell at Walmart.

They're easy to get, reasonably priced, accurate and reliable. They test very favorably for penetration and expansion compared with much more expensive ammunition.

I've never had any failures to fire or feed with this ammunition in my Glock 19. I have it in all of my 9x19mm pistols now.

dasmi · Feb 7, 2008

I use Federal HST.

9mm Self Defence Ammo

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