9mm Self Defense Ammo

[Zhivago]

See my issue is that people say "I use 124 grain +P" or "I use 147 grain" but no one offers any insight to their reasoning.

WHY choose +P over standard? Does it have a beneficial effect on expansion? Or does a slightly faster bullet just sound like a good idea? Chances are a bad guy wont notice the extra 50-100 FPS so what's the reasoning?

WHY choose 147 grain over 124 grain? How does the extra weight carry over into better expansion or energy transfer? Is there a reasoning behind the choice or is it just the quest for the biggest bullet moving as fast as possible?

When it all comes down to it, I'd rather be shot in the arm or leg with a .45 than in the head or spine or heart or major blood pathway with a .22 because in the end shot placement IS the most important factor. A hollow point that doesnt expand properly is still going to be a chunk of metal that hits Mr. Bad Man traveling at about 1/4 mile per second. Under IDEAL conditions (namely good shot placement) what is the beneficial effect of velocity and how does that compare to the effect of having a higher mass bullet? Well I know PART of that. A higher velocity yields more energy available to transfer during impact with Mr. Bad Man and as such, theoretically causes more damage. But if it's going too fast, with too much energy, the bullet over penetrates and some energy is wasted. Having a slightly heavier bullet traveling almost as fast yields similar energy. What is the best compromise and WHY?

Ramblings. Hope that made sense.

 

[Halo]

I think the debate about those things is largely a leftover from the earlier generations of hollow point designs. In the quest for the "ideal" compromise between expansion and penetration, different schools of thought came into being. Nowadays it seems like the latest generation bullet designs are able to yield a surprisingly similar penetration and expansion across a range of bullet weights, and even a range of calibers for that matter. The one thing that hasn't changed is the axiom that shot placement matters most.

But isn't it a lot more fun to argue over the most esoteric aspects of +P or no, 124 or 147, 9mm or 45???

 

[crushbup]

I put 147, as long as you are using HST. I'm not as familiar with the SXT, but from the pictures I've seen (both rounds tested in the same test) HST did better, with SXT not living up to its hype.

 

[Zhivago]

HST is my first choice provided it feeds well in my pistol. If not, Winchester Ranger T-Series and Speer Gold Dot are the next contenders. I dont really anticipate issues with HST though since I plan on trying 124 grain and 147 grain both, to see which feeds better.

 

[Halo]

How long has HST been around? For some reason I have only recently become aware of it. I gather it's a very high performing round, but is it really any better than the Gold Dot? GD has been my preferred choice for several years now, with my aging supply of Ranger 127 +P+ 2nd.

 

[167]

147gr bullets in general penetrate deeper than their lighter counterparts because of the lower velocity which means the bullets expands slower/less when it hits the target and because of higher sectional density. 124gr bullets are faster, so tend to expand quicker/more than their heavier counterparts. This in turn reduces penetration as well as the lower sectional density. When you throw in the +p you just get more expansion because of the increased velocity. For the people who like expansion, it seems they go with lighter rounds and sometimes +p rounds. For the guys who are penetration fanatics, they tend to like the 147gr versions.

The one exception seems to be the Corbon DPX because of the bullet design and material.

As long as the bullet shoots to point of aim, functions well in your gun/mags, and penetrates to whatever depth you think is necessary (FBI suggest 12"), it will work.

Some people suggest using +p rounds in short barrel guns (less than 4") to help compensate for velocity lost due to the short barrel.

I use 124gr +p Golden Sabers in my G19 because that is what I can get for cheap, they work well in my gun, and they go 12" deep.

 

[Zhivago]

http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html

http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/pistol/tacticalhst.aspx

A couple test results for HST.

 

[Halo]

What do you all think of the Cor-Bon DPX and Taurus Hex? They use the same solid copper HP made by Barnes. I'm intrigued enough to maybe try a few boxes just to see how well they cycle, etc. But I'm also a bit leery of the possibility that it might just be a gimmick.

 

[Hook686]

Yesterday, 08:03 PM #26

Zhivago wrote:

See my issue is that people say "I use 124 grain +P" or "I use 147 grain" but no one offers any insight to their reasoning.

WHY choose +P over standard? Does it have a beneficial effect on expansion? Or does a slightly faster bullet just sound like a good idea? Chances are a bad guy wont notice the extra 50-100 FPS so what's the reasoning?
....

I use 147 grain +P+ using the following rationalizations:

- it takes energy to break the muscle, tissue and bone bonds that protect critical organ
- Once the projectile reaches a critical organ, it needs sufficient energy to do serious damage
- in this 'journey of the projectile' conservation of energy and conservation of momentum needs be maintained
- there seems to be two distinct views for this 'journey of the projectile': the light and fast, and the slow and heavy
- I prefer the fast and heavy

 

[Steve C]

We do a lot of discussion regarding self defense ammo but for the most part the particular load doesn't matter most of the time, esp. for civilians who for the most part don't run toward deadly situations. Hollow points are more effective than the typical FMJ or JSP in all ammo across the board. Examining the only statistical data which is published by Marshall and Sanow (sp) they are perhaps 50% to 60% more effective as a group but the difference between the relative effectiveness of various HP ammo is much less significant, generally 10% to 20% between the worst performing to the best and a big percentage of that difference is the barrel length of the pistol.

Simply put I'd say that if you use any JHP ammo that's reliable in your handgun you are going to be well armed. The slight difference in a particular brand of ammo may or may not work in your favor under a relatively small percentage of situations. The truth is that most of us who are not cops, convenience store clerks or drug dealers are relatively unlikely to ever have to shoot someone in self defense, which is a good thing.

The thing that determines most of our selection process is the marketing by the ammo companies.

 

[Clipper]

I voted other...I want velocity and a solid reputation for reliability, performance and accuracy. That's why I use 115gr silvertip HPs.

 

[Mccallum]

Mine is 115 gr hollowpoints

 

[BikerRN]

In 9 MM I favor +P and +P+ loads, unless it's an older gun that won't handle them.

Two of my favorite loads are the CorBon 115 Grain +P JHP DPX and the Federal 115 Grain +P+ JHP's. If the gun can't handle the hotter loads then I personally like the Federal 115 Grain JHP 9BP.

BikerRN

 

[Blarelli]

147 grain +p goldensabers. They perform well in tests, and work great in my gun.

 

[-v-]

115gr +P+, specifically the famed (fabled?) Federal BPLE line of ammo. That or the Doubletap 115gr +P ammo. Something that's 1350 FPS from a 4" barrel seems to work very well at convincing a would-be attacker that they should probably stop whatever they are doing.

 

[167]

147 grain +p goldensabers. They perform well in tests, and work great in my gun.

Did know remington made +p 147gr Golden Sabers. Or are they loaded by a third party who then sells them?