9mm vs hatchet

[AK103K]

Using any edged weapon for self defense requires a very high level of skill and training -

Defending against one requires even more, especially if its already up close and in your face.

A handguns only real advantage is stand off range, once that range is closed, especially if your opponent has any kind of training in hand to hand, you had better be well versed in it too, regardless of what weapon you have.

I always taught my kids that if the person with the gun was close, then you close as quickly and as explosively as you can with them, fight, and take your chances, which I believe are actually very good in your favor at this point. If he was farther than a couple of big strides, then run like hell. Either way, if you stand still, you die.

I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people carrying a pistol have had no training dealing with someone at arms length. I'd also be willing to bet that most have little on no real "full contact" martial arts, grappling, or fighting experience either, and a sudden, violent, weaponless attack, let alone one with an edged weapon would devastate them. Its hard enough when you know its coming in practice. More than likely, this type of attack would be over before they realized it happened. They are relying on simply having the gun to make them invincible, and scare the scary person away.

 

['Card]

I'll take the gun over the hatchet.

If that puts me at a disadvantage at close quarters, I'm OK with that. I'll run away and then shoot you from over there somewhere.

Twice.

 

[psychophipps]

AK103K
I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people carrying a pistol have had no training dealing with someone at arms length. I'd also be willing to bet that most have little on no real "full contact" martial arts, grappling, or fighting experience either, and a sudden, violent, weaponless attack, let alone one with an edged weapon would devastate them. Its hard enough when you know its coming in practice. More than likely, this type of attack would be over before they realized it happened. They are relying on simply having the gun to make them invincible, and scare the scary person away.

Exactly. It's good to be in Condition Yellow all the time and to practice your firearms training but a day at the range isn't a day of true self-defense training by any stretch of the imagination. Even though I now carry regularly and go shooting I still hit up my dojo for self-defense training. In fact, my sensei has started adding H2H-to-pistol training to my workouts since he's recently learned that I CCW.

"Self-defense" isn't just a handgun on your hip or a shotgun in your closet,
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

 

[Boats]

There is some serious underestimation CQB melee weapons going on in this thread.

I would agree that the run of the mill hatchet is at best a weapon of opportunity.

That said, if you ever run into someone who chooses to pay for, learn, and use on people, something like this. . .

You just might be in a lethal amount of trouble at contact distance. Such a hatchet as this is gioing to be razor sharp and certainly wouldn't require much in terms of gross arm movements to kill someone with.

Would I rather have the gun against a great hatchet? Yep, but hopefully more on tap than a 9mm.

 

[Dr.Rob]

If you are in a telephone booth it's shovel time.

Can a Glock E-tool mount to a series 2 G-17?

 

[AK103K]

Sharpened E tools are a whole different critter. If your real good, you can deflect the bullets on the way over, just before you start hacking off limbs with one swing.(preferably, the one holding the gun first) Personally, I like the Russian and German tools the best.

 

[Dr.Rob]

"Whats the matter dear?"

"Some long-haired freaky looking guy with a shovel is staring at me. Apperently he wants to use the phone."

"Well put in another quarter!"

"It's ok I have my trusty 9mm.... oh my god."

"What honey what?"

"There are TWO of them!"

(fade to black)

 

[mole]

Cold Steel's "The Fighting Tomahawk" dvd only $199.99!!!
http://www.coldsteel.com/vdft.html

I certainly wouldn't buy it, but it might give you an idea or two. I find their proof dvds to be somewhat comical and too hyped up, but sometimes you can learn something valuable from someone you might have considered an idiot.

It seems to me that with the 9 in the holster and the hatchet in hand, the hatchet has the "edge" in agressive attacking at close ranges. I

 

[nutball]

Is it possible that I'm the first to think that the comment came from one of the guys that claim that the 9mm is an insufficient round? Perhaps the only defense against a hatchet is a .45? or a .50AE? It seems the context of the overheard comment has been lost. Why not a .380 or .32 auto then? The comment seems suspicious since the 9mm was singled out rather than saying "I'd rather have a hatchet in cqb than a pistol or handgun." Just my two cents.

 

[akanotken]

Chew on this

[Parody on/]

All Hatchet naysayers haven't thought this thru all the way, obviously. In fact, here is last nights Top Ten list from David Leatherman.

Tonights top ten reasons to use a hatchet instead of a handgun....

1. a .45 may expand to .75 inches, but a 1" x 4" hatchet will never shrink to .45
2. Marshall and Sanow determined a 99.9% one chop stops.
3. It's good for HD/SD because you wouldn't want to go downrange and have me throw one at you.
4. It's just as good as an Axe, it's all about chop placement anyway.
5. A double sided ax is NOT needed, most encounters end after one stroke. What are the chances you'll face multiple attackers anyway.
6. Remember to keep the hatchet sheathed, the sheath should cover then entire blade.
7. the sound of unsheathing an hatchet will scare most perps away.
8. We don't chop to kill, we chop to stop.
9. More people have been killed with a hatchet than any other firewood making implement.
10. They've yet to invent a hatchet lock, (but I haven't checked S&W's website yet).


For the Paranoid...
1. No balistics
2. No shell casings
3. No national hatchet registry
4. No need for a silencer that would need to be registered. However, remember that all hatchets must have a handle of at least 4 inches, everything else is considered a SHH and requires a $200 tax stamp.
5. Now that the AWB is banned, you can add a pistol grip AND mount a bayonet, unless you are from Kali where you are limited to two sharpened surfaces only.


As a reminder for all, 4 rules of hatchet safety.
1. treat every hatchet as if it's sharp, and the blade is bared.
2. know your campwood and what's under it.
3. keep your hand off the handle till you have your sights set on your target.
4. never chop off anything you aren't willing to do without (doctors can't sew everything back on).

And a last rallying call.

The right to keep and bear hatches is not about building fires or shortening sticks, it's about freedom.

[/Parody]

 

[MCgunner]

Okay, I'm convinced, I'm going to loose 50 lbs, get in shape, drop 20 years of my age, learn Karate and the art of the hatchet. Then, nothing can kill me. If I ever go to Alaska, I'll take my hatched for the bears, heck, might even hunt bears with it! Forget Casulls or .500 Smiths. And, of course, so long as I have the hatchet with me, 9mm rounds will bounce off me, need not worry.

the only trouble with this logic is that CCW of a hatchet is illegal in Texas, now I can understand why. I guess I've just gotta move to be safe against all the hand axes out there.

4. never chop off anything you aren't willing to do without (doctors can't sew everything back on).

Oh, they can likely sew it back on, but don't count on it ever working right again, even with Viagra.

Is it possible that I'm the first to think that the comment came from one of the guys that claim that the 9mm is an insufficient round? Perhaps the only defense against a hatchet is a .45? or a .50AE? It seems the context of the overheard comment has been lost. Why not a .380 or .32 auto then? The comment seems suspicious since the 9mm was singled out rather than saying "I'd rather have a hatchet in cqb than a pistol or handgun." Just my two cents.

Oh, no, the post's intent is rather transparent. It's definitely a troll post by a big bullet guy who loves his 1911/s and thinks there's nothing short of a 155 mm that's equal in a metric diameter. Now, we need to calculate the hatchet's energy and momentum. Dollars to donuts they both make the .45 pale in comparison. But, just like they say about rifles when the energy discussion comes around...."OH NO, APPLES AND TANGERINES!!!!!"

Since my pocket +P 9 pretty much equals, ballistically, a .357 magnum out of a 2" barrel, I no longer call it a "9mm". It is now a .355 Magnum. That seems to stop all .45 vs 9mm arguments.

 

[medmo]

"would prefer using a hatchet instead of a 9mm in very close quarters combat"

WE-TODD-ED

The guy must be a really, really, really, really bad shot. Obviously needs more range time.

 

[Lonestar]

If I was 20 again and in shape and the guy was smaller and weaker than me I would take the hachet. Otherwise I think I stick with the handgun.

 

[MCgunner]

I think I'd want the handgun anyway. You know the old saying, "God made some men big and some men small, but Sam Colt made all men equal."