A.b.c. Always be carrying!!!

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Tirod,
I can make some comments about you but I'll keep it THR approved... my neighbor has spent his career in IT and has had a cell phone since day 1. He isn't retired yet but still works over 60 hours a week... our neighborhood is fairly new and not run down. kid didn't make any noise and just jumped in with him into the car... sorry that not every story is told 1st hand.. neighbor as far as I know in not a member of THR. If you are legally able to, yes you should always carry lethal force you never know when you will need it. better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. when would you not want to have a gun? is your reality so safe there are no criminals and thugs running around? must be nice Tirod...
 
I can make some comments about you but I'll keep it THR approved... is your reality so safe there are no criminals and thugs running around? must be nice Tirod...

JohnnyK,

Believe it or not (which you probably don't believe) most parts of the Midwest have low crime rates and even lower violent crime rates.

I live in the country near a small town (pop. 800 +) and I can't say since living here for 13 years that I have ever felt the need to be armed against attack by humans. I do try to go armed when working outside for protection against rattlesnakes, feral dogs and skunks (which are known to be rabies carriers).

As a free man I choose to live to a area that has a low crime rate. The fact that you live in a community with higher crime doesn't give you cause to criticize Tirod and folks like myself. In fact the majority of the opinions so far is a firearm was not needed in this incident and why the person just didn't stop the car, shut the engine off on the car and bailout.
 
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BSA1 - I live in a pretty affluent development myself. Does that mean that trash will not drive the mile or two it takes to get to my neighborhood to do harm? Like some have said in the past - It's not the odds/risk but the stakes. To each their own...and the converse is true of yourself and your comments.
 
It's a poor example of why we should ABC. This guy did everything wrong, yet came to no harm whatsoever. That's a pretty sweet outcome - and much less costly than if he HAD been carrying.
 
HBO's The Chesire Murders; armed robbery subject.....

I'd add that anyone who has a "hey, so what" or "it can't happen here" should watch the HBO films documentary; The Chesire Murders. :uhoh:
I saw it about 4mo ago on HBOGo.
In short, 2 scumbags broke in & reeked havoc on a upper-middle class family in CT. It's not for the weak-willed to see & can make you very angry :cuss: but it's a good thing to see, then discuss with a spouse or older family member(the film is not for young kids or teens under 16 or so).

I also wanted to bring up how this past Monday afternoon, 06/23/2014, a armed robbery suspect was walking around the same area where I had been. :uhoh:
I went by a local Super Target after shooting my Glock at a indoor range. The felon held up a Pizza Hut around 1130am. He was approx 2/3 city blocks away from me around the same time. I didn't realize what occurred until I saw the media reports later in the day.
 
I'd add that anyone who has a "hey, so what" or "it can't happen here" should watch the HBO films documentary; The Chesire Murders. :uhoh:
I saw it about 4mo ago on HBOGo.
In short, 2 scumbags broke in & reeked havoc on a upper-middle class family in CT. It's not for the weak-willed to see & can make you very angry :cuss: but it's a good thing to see, then discuss with a spouse or older family member(the film is not for young kids or teens under 16 or so).

I also wanted to bring up how this past Monday afternoon, 06/23/2014, a armed robbery suspect was walking around the same area where I had been. :uhoh:
I went by a local Super Target after shooting my Glock at a indoor range. The felon held up a Pizza Hut around 1130am. He was approx 2/3 city blocks away from me around the same time. I didn't realize what occurred until I saw the media reports later in the day.
Must have a horrible life if you think death awaits you 24/7 when you pick up a pizza or sitting home watching a movie. That is not living and the explosion of all these carry permits has amplified the immense paranoia some feel
 
I am glad everything turned out OK. As to not being able to use a knife or gun in a car. THAT'S WHY YOU PRACTICE THESE THINGS! A set of car keys to the face, would allow time to draw a knife or gun or better yet get out! If he was working on the car, that should have given him even more wepons to grab & use! Like the Boy Scouts say! Be Prepared!
 
@45 Auto... Yes, I have taken training where you learn how to draw in a vechicle to simulate a car jacking... it takes much practice and concentration so you can draw and not shoot yourself in the process when punching out...
 
@BSA1 most people live in more populated areas... I think the statistic is that 80% or so of the entire population of the U.S. lives within 50 miles of the coast... less population = less criminals... everyone should still be prepared...
 
He's 68 and has only likely had one the last 10% of his life. The habit of NOT having one is much more ingrained.

Where do you come up with this stuff? You mean he only "discovered" cell phones about 7 years ago?

I'm one of those (apparently) advanced age, technologically retarded people who's only had a cell phone since 1995. Before that, the only cell phone readily available was the Motorola "brick" that was about $1200, was hardly pocket sized; and cell phone coverage in the early to mid-1990's was often spotty at best.

It was all analog, no data and cell towers were few and far between. I remember sitting in a restaurant in Redondo Beach, CA in 1993 and no one at the table could get cell connectivity - yep, right outside of Los Angeles and zero cell coverage.

Oh yeah, I got my first PC computer in 1986 to run AutoCAD...just because you're currently considered "old" doesn't mean you slept through three decades of technology, have no idea how it works, and it's a "new thing."
 
JohnnyK,

I understand where you are coming from. Most urbanites look down on us rural folk. You would not be comfortable with our slow, trusting attitude anymore than I would be living in your community whee I would need to be armed even when I am in my own yard.

Only 80% huh? I wonder how we can get it to 90%?

p.s. You would probably be surprised at what we are "prepared" for.
 
Posted by Tirod: We choose where we live based on NOT needing a firearm 24/7.
Realistically, that is wishful thinking.

We may be able to live in an environment in which the area immediately outside is not heavily trafficked by local undesirables, but criminals are mobile, and they are likely to go where the money is--or where there are people who can take them to the ATM to get money. The chance of being assaulted while going out to get the paper may be exceptionally low, but that does not mean that people in a nicer house in a nicer neighborhood are not at risk.

The likelihood of something happening on any one day is far, far, less than remote. The likelihood of something happening at least once during one's life time is much higher, but still very low. The issue then revolves around two factors: the potential consequences, which hare very severe indeed, and the effort required to mitigate the risk, which is extremely low.

I live in an upscale community with a very low crime rate. I have needed to produce a firearm for home defense on more than one occasion. Also, a couple of years ago, I happened to choose to go out unarmed to take some pictures. While I was doing so, three perps who had broken into a nearby house and tied up the occupants drove either past me and my equipment on their way out, or out the one other possible exit route. Frightening, in retrospect. And no one would choose a neighborhood other than that one for reasons of predicted safety.

For every "HE SHOULD HAVE HAD A GUN!" post, there are equal and opposite reasons not to.
What might those be?
 
Based on past experience the mathematical probability that I will need a gun to defend myself where I live is very low. In fact, I would go even further and say that I am certain that I will only really need a gun once for the rest of my life when I don't have it. So, why do I always want one on me? Maybe its like this: some businessmen wear elegant silk ties that they will never use for any practical purposes, if I choose instead to have a Colt or Smith & Wesson that someone can say that I will have no more use for than the silk tie is that so bad if it makes me happy? Counseling sounds like it might be fun if I trusted it to never effect my rights, but I'd never spend the money. I'd just buy another gun.
 
JohnnyK,

I understand where you are coming from. Most urbanites look down on us rural folk. You would not be comfortable with our slow, trusting attitude anymore than I would be living in your community whee I would need to be armed even when I am in my own yard.

Only 80% huh? I wonder how we can get it to 90%?

p.s. You would probably be surprised at what we are "prepared" for.

The way I see it, the issue here isn't the fact that you live in a rural area that has a lower violent crime rates than the average metropolitan area, it's the fact that you and Tirod give off the vibe of a "holier-than-thou" attitude about where you live. The impression that your combined posts gives is much akin to those who discuss moving out of a state because of gun laws- it implies that the will to move or not move exists entirely in a vacuum, when in reality people need to consider a great deal of things before they move. Whether the reason be financial, social, or familial, not everybody has the ability to just pick up and move based off of single aspects such as violent crime or gun control.

This is coming from someone who is planning on moving to a rural area in the future. It infuriates me when people make statements such as-

We choose where we live based on NOT needing a firearm 24/7.

I had no choice in where I was born. I have no choice but to stay here until I can afford to move where I want to go. Implying that it's foolish of me to stay in a metropolitan center with a high violent crime rate does about jack-all to actually help my situation. My reality is that as a young person with a minimum amount of experience in my field, it is going to take me and my family quite awhile to be able to save up enough to move somewhere that we find more ideal. However, this is a good situation compared to what many others face. I have a chance to get free of this environment because of socioeconomic factors that favor me. A lot of people don't have those same advantages, and as such have no options in moving away.
 
Realistically, that is wishful thinking.

We may be able to live in an environment in which the area immediately outside is not heavily trafficked by local undesirables, but criminals are mobile, and they are likely to go where the money is--or where there are people who can take them to the ATM to get money. The chance of being assaulted while going out to get the paper may be exceptionally low, but that does not mean that people in a nicer house in a nicer neighborhood are not at risk.

The likelihood of something happening on any one day is far, far, less than remote. The likelihood of something happening at least once during one's life time is much higher, but still very low. The issue then revolves around two factors: the potential consequences, which hare very severe indeed, and the effort required to mitigate the risk, which is extremely low.

I live in an upscale community with a very low crime rate. I have needed to produce a firearm for home defense on more than one occasion. Also, a couple of years ago, I happened to choose to go out unarmed to take some pictures. While I was doing so, three perps who had broken into a nearby house and tied up the occupants drove either past me and my equipment on their way out, or out the one other possible exit route. Frightening, in retrospect. And no one would choose a neighborhood other than that one for reasons of predicted safety.

What might those be?
What kind of "low crime" upscale community has a house invasion and where you had to pull out your gun more then once? Let me know where it is so I can avoid it. One thing I learned on the internet is not to believe everything you read even if you wrote it lol
 
Posted by 40-82: Based on past experience the mathematical probability that I will need a gun to defend myself where I live is very low.
Good. Hopefully, the likelihood is very, very low. But what happens when you do need to do so?

The same thought process extends to the subjects of fire extinguishers, smoke detectors, CO detectors, first aid kits, and many other things.

Personally, I believe that the risk of violent criminal attack is far higher near the ATM or in a parking lot than it is at home, for me; the prevalence of methamphetamine related crime, the proximity of two major drug arteries, and the proximity of a city with a very high crime a rate just down the interstate contribute to that risk.

So, I carry, and I find it more inconvenient to take the firearm on and off all the time than I do to mitigate risks in the home.
 
Drawing from a tight situation like that could quickly result in a grapple for the gun. Not good.

Regardless of whether I was armed or not, if the kid did not have a weapon in his hand, I'd open the door and exit the car as quickly as I could... taking the keys with me if possible.

Once out of the car, I'd carefully open distance and re-evaluate the new scenario.

Just because he did not appear to be armed, does not mean he wasn't. And while stuck in the car with him, he'd have the advantage with a knife, regardless of whether I had a gun or not.

Though giving him a ride wouldn't be my first option, it appears to have worked out well. But then again, he could direct you to take him someplace where he could further assault you with fewer witnesses.

Walk away whenever possible people.
 
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Posed by SSN Vet: ....if the kid did not have a weapon in his hand, I'd open the door and exit the car as quickly as I could... taking the keys with me if possible.

Once out of the car, I'd carefully open distance and re-evaluate the new, scenario.
Yep.
 
"I don't know about you but anybody jumping in my ride on my property and demanding a ride would most certainly make me feel in fear of my life."

Not a pleasant thing to happen, but "in fear of my life"?. Good luck convincing a jury of that.
 
Yeah, I'm not seeing reason to shoot anyone in this story. All your neighbor had to do was get out of the car - danger removed and time to re-evaluate.
 
JohnnyK thanks for filling in the neighbor has been carrying a phone a lot longer than me. It answers his accessibility and habit pattern, it doesn't answer whether - or not - he felt the need to dial 911.

I'd rather hear the story from him. We can then direct our questions and get first hand information. That is why I consider it sensationalist to repeat stories that did not occur first hand.

As for having a holier than thou attitude about living where I do - it is exactly because I was stuck in a deteriorating neighborhood. The property values were declining insofar as the normal appreciation that should have happened, there were murders within blocks of the home, vandals were tagging the alley fences, and young thugs were beginning to appear strolling down the streets refusing to stay on the sidewalks. If they blocked traffic, to bad, make a scene, dude, we know where you live. You park your car on the street, right?

Within the first year of living there the guy across the street had the wheels stolen off his 68 Camaro, and my wife lost the battery from her car. I've have air conditioners stolen from the bed of my truck, and one kid broke into the house instead of mowing the lawn. My concept of living in a "nice" neighborhood is tempered by the shooting by KC hit men of a young man and his girlfriend (who my wife knew from high school in another town 20 miles away.) That was retribution for stealing the dealers stash and selling it locally.

It wasn't getting any better, the son of a former mayor wired the duplex next door for video (in the '80s) and while is was never proven, we definitely suspected drugs for all the traffic on Friday and Saturday night past 2 AM. Later a "single mom" seemed to have the same schedule of visitors.

Having four children, the house paid for, and an opportunity, we moved. Is it better, yes. Are there difficulties in the neighborhood, not nearly so. About the worst to go on is that snow sleds are considered community property in the winter, kids steal bikes, and you currently don't leave a gas can out for all the scooters needing a fill up or lawns to be mowed - on your nickel.

Nice place to live after getting off deployment for a rotation to GTMO. Now, tell me about how hard you have it, and why you put up with it. If you have to carry a gun daily and consider people in your neighborhood a threat to your lifespan, then you need to do something about it. Not whine about how bad it is.

Most of that is internet bravado to begin with. And most Americans are NOT carrying a firearm daily to protect them from the abundant lethal threats that seem to be everywhere! if you read some forums.

Total violent crime amount to about 386 per 100,000, or about .38%. The rate of CCW is ten time higher, which is exactly the curve we have seen - the more that carry, the less crime we see happening.

97% of the public DOES NOT CARRY. They expect the cops to do their job preventing crime, which we all know doesn't happen.

So, do I cruise Walgreen parking lots after midnite to see who's bullying who in the local drug market? No. Do I wander alleys downtown near bars or cruise the local strip joints drinking and looking for fights, no. Do I steal the stash of the local drug dealer, offer his gf a place to stay, and put ads on craigslist selling his dope? Nope. I'm not the dope.

And I don't go around repeating coulda woulda shoulda stories second hand to make a point about why I do or do not carry. That sort of speculative internet bravado means nothing, and is no different than TEOTWAKI or zombie talk.

I could tell you about the overweight bubba thugs who come in to forcibly get a warranty on something they can't prove they bought, and threaten to beat me, but I don't need to embellish on the normal business practices I have to live with daily. I also don't need to mention NOBODY gets to carry weapons in retail, or that I'm quite aware exactly where the 1/2 drive breaker bar, jack handles, or my Benchmade Risk is clipped.

I just don't need an ego pump from the internet to have a life, thats all.

Do you carry every day, no matter what? How nice. Most of us can't, workplace rules forbid it, and loss of your job is the reward. Do I fly, many do, with guns, I only did when I could take a full auto M16. Otherwise I avoid it like the plague.

We each have our standards, if you like to live in fear of an impending lethal threat, it's your choice. I don't. I live in a neighborhood where I can leave the car unlocked at night (I don't,) drive to work without a firearm and pretty much worry that my worst risk is simply speaking truth.

Which seems to be ignored in the rush of denial: we really do have it pretty good in the US. Exactly why immigrants are flooding in.
 
JohnnyK,

You need to calm down cause you are making false assumptions.

We lived in a major city in a decaying neighborhood that was starting to see gang activity. My kids went to the toughest middle school in the city that had cops patrolling the hallway. Like Tirod we dealt with theft and a drug dealer that parked his car in front of my house to sell his drugs to children.

My wife and I worked several jobs and saved our money so we could buy some land and build our home. We did a lot of research and picked a area with low crime rate and excellent schools. We both chose jobs and passed up promotions so we can keep our lifestyle.

So don't try that "holier than thou" accusation with folks that have dealt with the same problems you are. We made our choices happen because we made them happen. I feel sorry for folks like you that have to be armed even to go out to their front yard. Our lifestyle and values didn't 't happen by accident. We feel blessed that we don't have to deal with the big city problems anymore. If that is in your opinion "holier than thou" so be it.

If trouble decides to come to my door I'll deal with it. While I may just be plain,old country boy it doesn't mean that we are not more than capable of handling it.
 
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I take Kung Fu so I'm always armed...with my arms :). Close quarters give me an advantage too. You don't have to be strong or young, just patient and willing to learn.
 
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