A.b.c. Always be carrying!!!

[JohnnyK]

i love one sign on the gate at a rural place i delivered pizzas to it had crosshairs and said if you can read this, you are in range.

not much to confuse the simpleminded with that one...

or one at a local store... shoplifters will be shot.
survivors will be prosecuted.
justice texas style.

 

[JohnnyK]

update: my neighbor just got himself a new pocket .380 incase anybody else wants to jump in his car unauthorized...
we'll be going to the range to break it in within the next few days.

 

[ljnowell]

i love one sign on the gate at a rural place i delivered pizzas to it had crosshairs and said if you can read this, you are in range.



not much to confuse the simpleminded with that one...



or one at a local store... shoplifters will be shot.

survivors will be prosecuted.

justice texas style.

My dad has one at the end of his drive that says "No Trespassing- Violators Will Be Persecuted.

 

[ACP]

Texas Penal Code

9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


Texas Peal Code defines "robbery" as:

Sec. 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:

(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or

(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.

(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.


----------------------------------------------

So, to the OP, your friend would have to convince a jury under cross-examination that the words and actions ofthis teenager placed him "in fear of imminent bodily injury or death" in order for him to use deadly force. He would have to do that believing that the car could not be "protected" by any other means and would never be recovered, and that only deadly force could stop the teenager.

 

[itsa pain]

This happened in the guys driveway while he was working on his car though. As several people have already pointed out, its not very practical to lock and unlock your car while repeatedly getting in and out.

I really find it hard to believe a kid jumps in a car and demands a ride anyway if he was working on the car did he tell the kid as soon as I finish changing the oil I will be ready?

 

[GBExpat]

Yeah, I'm not seeing reason to shoot anyone in this story. All your neighbor had to do was get out of the car - danger removed and time to re-evaluate.

This neatly sums up my thoughts on the subject.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Post #74....

That's good that the guy will buy a new .380acp pistol.
He should get a NRA membership to go with it.
www.NRA.org


This topic reminds me of a incident I had in 2007. I was in rural PA picking up my late mother's 1997 GM Cavalier to transport it back to my house.
I was in my grandmother's yard(property) & was leaning over the seats/console in the car when I looked up & saw a weird young guy standing directly behind me!
I didn't know the guy & told him to leave. He didn't say anything & took off.
My family's small town(approx 300-400 pop) has gone from bad to worse in the 2000s/2010s. A few of my relatives avoid even staying there when they visit. They'll stay the day then leave or commute 20/30min from hotels close by.
I knew the area was run-down but I didn't realize how bad it was until that trip.

Now, some locals or small town folk are more casual or laid back which is fine but I was a kid/teen in the same place in the 1970s/1980s. Id never do anything like that to some stranger.
If that got back to my grand-parents or other relatives, I'm sure they'd say something to me about it!

Rusty

 

[Scarpia]

Two years ago, the house next to me and the house on the other side of my neighbor were both broken into. These events were four months apart and in both cases the perps were caught. Both break-ins were done in daylight hours, mid-week. During both events, I was at home (I'm retired, the occupants of these houses were at work) not knowing what was going on next to me. It could have been that these perps knew my house was occupied and opted to go elsewhere, I'll never know for sure. Lesson learned is that I am at a higher risk sitting in my freakin' house than out and about running errands, etc. I have a pistola either on me or within arm's reach 24/7.

 

[texasgun]

1). teenager opens car door and sits in your car
2). teenager is unarmed but demands to be driven somewhere, doesn't use force or attack you

apparently for some folks here 1) + 2) = pulling out and using their Glock

woow. just woow. I hope everyone who thinks that 1) + 2) justifies the use of deadly force gets familiar with federal/state laws.

because otherwise you are going to spend an awful long time in the slammer...

whatever happened to common sense/ situational awareness or heck using your arms or a pepper-spray?

 

[Warp]

It was a brief trip(5min) & I didn't take my Glock 21 .45acp with me.

That is not at all uncommon for people whose 'carry' gun is so large.

 

[JohnnyK]

@texasgun... so let me get this straight... if you were working in your house and not paying attention and somebody opens your unlocked front door and walks in and sits next to you scaring the crap out of you... and asks you to make him a sandwich you are going to bake him some brownies too? breaking into your car is same as breaking into your house... my first inclination would be to pull my glock because i have no clue who just broke the law by breaking into my property... sorry, i have a wife and kids that want me around... i have no idea who this person is... they obviously have never heard of knocking... my first priority is to my family... i'm lawyered up for this purpose.

 

[wyohome]

I live in a pretty crime free area, and carrying around home seemed silly. A month ago I had a heart attack and bypass surgery. I was shocked at how helpless I felt while walking around town for rehab. I started carrying a cane and .380 to ward off feral cats and other unwanted pests.

 

[Sunray]

"...a teenage male in the car with him...driven to his sister's house..." Screams for a well placed back hand, not a firearm.

 

[BSA1]

JohnnyK,

In your original post you said the teenager sat uninvited in a car. Now you are changing the story to walking uninvited into a home. Then you change the situations again to "breaking" into a home or car. Four totally different situations.

You have not received the answers you apparently are looking for in your original post which most of replies have been how simple actions would have solved the problem without use of a firearm.

You state you are "lawyered up." I hope you will put some of the money you are spending on a lawyer to get counsel on legal use of force in your State.

 

[huntsman]

Abc My LCP EFD

 

[RustyShackelford]

Carry guns/property....

To clarify; when I carry my Glock 21 .45acp pistol & spare magazine, I mean a 5.11 PuSH bag(man-purse) or the standard Glock case(private vehicle).
I'm still looking into new holsters for the big Glock 21 & I might just buy a M&P Shield 9x19mm(no manual safety) or a J frame S&W.

I'd add that my state is very clear that a armed citizen can not use lethal force to defend property or for thefts/stolen property.
The rub is how the factor can be established in open court or with prosecutors.
In my metro area, home owners have fired warning shots or pointed guns at crooks/trespassers without any formal charges.
One mom even shot at a RSO(registered sex offender) peeking in her windows. The cops & State Atty's Office let that case slide.

My point is that saying you may face charges or that something is illegal may be a different case when you go to court/serve on a jury.

Rusty

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by JohnnyK: breaking into your car is same as breaking into your house... my first inclination would be to pull my glock because i have no clue who just broke the law by breaking into my property...

Well, if you happen to be right handed, and someone gets into the passenger seat of your car, drawing a gun with you right hand just might well be the most bone-headed thing you could do from a tactical standpoint.

 

[barnbwt]

"if you were working in your house and not paying attention and somebody opens your unlocked front door and walks in and sits next to you scaring the crap out of you... and asks you to make him a sandwich you are going to bake him some brownies too?"
But you'd shoot him? Hope you don't move to Colorado anytime soon; that could very well be a scenario you'd be faced with. Didn't we have a really ugly prosecution recently involving a drunk foreign student who did essentially this, and was needlessly (but ultimately guiltlessly, after a lengthy and expensive court battle) shot by his upstairs neighbor who did not wait to see if there was actually any violent intent from the trespasser? That's a process I'd seek to avoid if at all possible.

Locking doors is possibly easier than shooting people . It's also pretty much accepted among people paying the slightest attention that leaving domicile doors/windows unlocked when closed is beyond needlessly stupid. Leaving more than one point of entry open is monumentally stupid (i.e. lock all but the driver's door or main entry if you need the access).

I'd also be cognizant of the possibly that someone might walk up to me for whatever reason unexpectedly if I'm distracted by doing other stuff while outdoors. What's the tactical response for being held up by a mugger while splayed out under a car to change oil? If you are in a spot where someone is likely to approach you thusly --like on a street corner-- either be vigilant or expect to be surprised and unprepared. BTW, being startled is not the same as being accosted with force justifying lethal response in kind; people need to stop thinking with the 'lizard brain' ganglion at the bottom of their spine and use their brain to construct an intelligent response fitting the circumstance. Hard sell, I know

TCB

 

[texasgun]

seriously.. this is getting ridiculous...

if someone walks into my house during daytime (!) and demands that I bake him a cookie... I'd tell him to get the eff out of my house and call 911. unless they attack you or you are in fear for your life .... there is ZERO justification to use lethal force.

good luck sitting in front of a jury and trying to make the case that blasting away an unarmed teenager inside your car who did not attack you was a justified use of lethal force :banghead: doesn't matter how "lawyered up" you are. unless you have some injuries to prove an attack or the teenager was armed... I would bet you are going away for a long time. say hi to bubba in the jail shower....

 

[RustyShackelford]

True, but....

I agree with post #90 but in all honesty, how many street people or anyone else just going to pop up & say; oh, okay, sorry, I'll go now.
Most will lash out or escalate things.
Or as some SW area cops say; "things go rodeo".

I'm sure the armed CCW license holder who killed a aggressive street person didn't wake up, get showered & dressed & said; today I'm going to get into a critical incident with a street bum over change.
We can't live in a perfect world where we can say what will or won't happen.

 

[barnbwt]

how many street people or anyone else just going to pop up & say; oh, okay, sorry, I'll go now.

Well, that's because the 'brownie' premise itself disingenuous; it's pretty much impossible that specific event could happen for a couple reasons, but that doesn't change the fact that if it did happen, you wouldn't be justified in drawing, let alone shooting (I'm just guessing that violent brandishing is still a crime within your own home)

For a baked, brownie-seeking-missile to arrive in the average kitchen, he'd have to stumble from where ever he originated (most of those folks don't feel like doing much while 'enjoying') to the door, be cogent enough to get through it, wander up to you unexpectedly (you seriously didn't hear him giggling from two blocks away?), and merely ask "dude, bake me a brownie" for that situation to occur as stated. Not happening.

For someone to actually arrive in a kitchen unexpectedly and surprise you, they've stealthily creeped through the front door (or just kicked it in) and quickly made there way to where you are, bypassing all sorts of valuable stuff they could snatch and run with; they are likely keyed up and agitated/aggressive from the stress of doing something highly illegal in a strange place, and that's if they are sober which they likely aren't unless they are withdrawing. Yes, they'd likely be young, male, and a street person or at the very least broke, based on logistics & motive involved in home invasion. And that's if all they had in mind was to break in and demand a brownie. Not happening.

So, like I said, a disingenuous example, but a telling one nonetheless...believe it or not, you aren't allowed to shoot someone based on what they might do (like "lash out or escalate things"). FWIW, SW cops have immunity, and an awful lot of people do get shot by police that would not fare so well in the legal since outside their profession --to put it very lightly. I can't justify preemptive tactics in the name of 'getting home safe' like they can (as if that's not every bit my right, too; their's is just more equal, is all)

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

"I'd tell him to get the eff out of my house and call 911. unless they attack you or you are in fear for your life .... there is ZERO justification to use lethal force."
I'd think that recent Bubba-garage-sting spat would have made this pretty clear to anyone paying attention. The basement-sting case, too.

TCB

 

[Onward Allusion]

wyohome
I live in a pretty crime free area, and carrying around home seemed silly. A month ago I had a heart attack and bypass surgery. I was shocked at how helpless I felt while walking around town for rehab. I started carrying a cane and .380 to ward off feral cats and other unwanted pests.

Ain't that the truth. After something like that, a 12 year old girl can kick your butt. It puts everything in perspective. Welcome to the zipper club! I'm 10 months out and it's night and day compared to 1 month out.

BTW, you may want to check out this site - www.inspire.com They have a great forum for heart bypass folks.

Good Luck!

 

[RustyShackelford]

Another well known event....

If you can, watch the home break-in/beating of the middle age woman in New Jersey.
She's in her living room watching TV then a big thug bursts in & starts to pummel her.

These attacks may seem far fetched but I doubt the home owner/mom was prepared.

 

[wyohome]

Thanks, OA. Getting better each day.