A bare-minimum arsenal - your opinions?

[Chris Rhines]

Absolute bare minimum? A concealable pistol.

A reasonable minimum for an average family concerned with personal self-defense and the possibility of small-scale civil unrest (as opposed to commie hordes...) - Two identical pistols, one self-loading battle rifle, one shotgun, and a .22 rifle to play with. Beyond that, more guns become less important than more training, more spare parts, and more non-gun supplies.

The exact guns would be determined by available budget and personal preference.

- Chris

 

[NotQuiteSane]

RIFLE: My son already owns what I want: an SKS, which I have shot at length and really love. Ammo is plentiful and dirt-cheap. In a pinch, it will do many tasks fairly well.

1st choice: Battle rifle (m1a, FAL, HGK, etc) in .308 Ammo is everywhere

2nd choice: Garand.

3rd choice: WWI or II bolt action rifle.

ANy choice should be equipped with a removeable scope, and you should be able to shoot with iron sights as well (performance) as with scope.

all 3 groups can be effective at 8-1000 meters, if you do your part, can all double as hunting weapon

SHOTGUN: Make mine a Remington or Mossberg 12 ga.

Assuming for self defense only, a Mossy pump in 12 ga. I'd seriously consider trying to find one w/ folding stock, not for "cool" (yeah, right) factor, but to create smaller sized weapon for storing (i.e. if you want to mount it to a backpack...)

REVOLVER: .357 magnum....versatile, powerful and can shoot both .38 spcl and .357 mag. Ammo is universally inexpensive and available.

I don't care for revolvers (personal prefrence), but I'll agree with your choice.

AUTOLOADER: A service-grade 9 mm. This is the one that is puzzling both of us. There are so many fine autoloaders out there. I am leaning towards a CZ 75 (I like that Kadet .22 conversion kit!) The 9mm is a stout round and is both universally cheap and plentiful.

what ever brand you like in 10mm -p-, or larger caliber (I'd reccomend to 10mm or .45) I too favor CZ's (actually Witnesses)

the 9mm may be "everywhere", and it may even work "most of the time", but the thing that bothers me is it may even work "most of the time" Due to avadibility, I'd have to say .45acp.

back-up/concealment gun: I already have this one....my NAA mini-revolver .22mag

If you yse a revolver for primary pistol: any easily concealed weapon that can yuse the same ammo & speedloaders of the "big" gun

Auto: mini/mico version of full size (i.e 1911/mico 1911, glunk/mini glunk...) Should be able to share magazines. IMO, it's better to have 2-6 spare mags (if I know I'll need them, I'll carry as much ammo as possible) that'll work in both pistols vs 1-2 that will only work in one gun. If you need to do a reload, you don't want to grab the wrong magazine. In a combat situation, you can only be stupid once

NQS

 

[Cosmoline]

The only thing lacking is scoped, long-range stopping power. Of course, that's a tad more expensive than your average SKS. It's something to consider, though. Ruger Model 77's are pretty inexpensive and you could get one in .308 that would be sufficient.

 

[NotQuiteSane]

Forgot a few things:

primary reloading setup: Your choice of a reliable brand.

SHTF setup: 2-3 lee loaders, depending if you want to reload for shotgun (the kind that use the mallet, slow, but compact), a well packed beam scale, with homemade dippers for backup, at least 1lb powder for each caliber. 1-5 lbs bullets per caliber, with both light and heavy selections, 100-1000 very well paced primers per caliber

SHTF casting setup:

2+ lee (for price/avadibility) molds per caliber. how many will be a personal choice on what you want to load

dipper and small pot (use over fire)

somethign to dump the hot castings into (pop bottle/milk just w/ top cut off and filled with water works good) Remember you can't use this for food, and space may be at a premium. if no other choice, dig a hole in the ground, line w/ tinfoil, and fill with water

NQS's how to size cast bullets w/o a bench:

2x6x.250 flat steel
lee sizing die (1 per caliber)
1 extra lock ring
~6" steel rod
~10" coathanger sectioun/welding rod/similar

drill & tapp block to accept die. assemble, and place storage/bullet cather condainter on top

weld 6" rod to the doohookey that pushes the bullets through

dig ~6" hole, turn sizin asembly upside down, and fill in. the plate shout be at least 1" underground, but the die opening should be 1/2 or more inches above ground, to keep dirt out (you can allo counter sink the dirt around it, to allow deeper burial for more holding power. don't just toss dirt in, pack it into the hole)

using mallet & doohookey, drive bullets through die into recptical. use thin rod to shift pile as needed.

When full dig up (if several sessions of sizing will be required, only dig enough to seperate halfs of plastic case) and empty.

don't forget to lube

I reccomend at least 1 lb per caliber of lead based alloy. what gun you have will determine if you want a "hard" or "soft" alloy

Also:

Spare parts kits for weapons

AND...

(Really at myself for forgetting this):

Cleaning supplies. a dirty gun is little better than a paperweigh/club. If you want it to go "bang" every time you pull the trigger, then you must do your part

NQS

 

[s&w 24]

right now I have :

98 Mauser in 8mm sporter
enfield #7(?) 22 lr trainer
S&W 28 4"
S&W 27 6.5"

I plan to add :

IZH Double 12 ga with exposed hammers
S&W 60 3"
and I'm tring to tell myself I don't need anything else!

 

[Jedi_7.62]

Bare minnimum and If I had to travel light ....

Rifle.....AK 7.62x39..Have a scope for my SAR 1 so it could serve many purposes.
Handgun.....357 revolver probably S&W 6 inch bbl.

If not traveling light I'd include a good 12 gauge pump
and a good scoped rifle like an M1 or remington 700 maybe a Mosin Nagant.

In this environment CCW would be irrelevant. My AK would be permanantly attached to me.

Alternate handguns 9mm or Glock 40
Lots of ammo and parts for these guns

But really If I had to pick a single gun it would be my AK.
If I had nothing else I could be comfortable with just it.

 

[CTgunteacher]

I lived with a pretty bare-bones battery for several years, when I was a bit younger. It consisted of:

Marlin 60 .22
Mossberg 12 ga.
Remington 788 .308
Ruger Mini-14 .223
Colt Combat Commander .45
S&W 042 .38

These guns took care of all my needs, from hunting through defense through the competitions in which I participated at the time.

If I were purely concerned about civil unrest/anarcy/social breakdown, that battery would stand me in good stead. Cost is more than 22luvr mentioned, though. If starting over, I think I'd do it this way:

.22 rifle
I like Marlin 60 better than the ubiquitous 10/22, but either is perfectly acceptable. Useful for taking small game. Ammo is very cheap and you can lay in a supply of thousands of rounds for very little money. I choose a semiauto .22 because it is more useful for defense in a pinch than a bolt or single-shot rifle. Add a low-powered scope. $150.

12 or 20 gauge repeating shotgun
Useful for taking small/feathered game and house defense. Remington, Mossberg, Winchester, whatever, so long as it works with light, field, anti-personnel and magnum loads. $250.

Repeating rifle
Mini-14, SKS, M1 Garand, even Winchester or Marlin lever guns. AR15s sure are nice, but they are pricey, and we shouldn't labor under the delusion we'll be taking on infantry squads (at least not with a prayer of winning). I'd prefer a gun firing milsurp ammo just for cost reasons, but .30-30 is also plentiful and relatively inexpensive. This is the "go-to" gun for any outdoor fighting that might crop up. $350.

Bolt rifle
Any powerful caliber is acceptable (.30-06, .270, 7mm, etc.), but I'd choose a .308 to take advantage of milsurp ammo. This is your rifle for taking larger game, if available (probably a big "if"), and for keeping the rioting sheeple and Mongol hordes at a distance. The Savage rifles are probably the "best buy" in this category. Add a decent scope or buy a Wal-Mart special. $400.

Handgun
While I like .45 autos for general shooting, I doubt there will be many opportunities for recreational shooting in a situation of civil unrest. I'd just get a 4" .357 revolver, and consider it a distant second to a long gun for any kind of fighting. But it'll be on your hip all the time, like when you're cutting wood, butchering game, gardening, etc. It'll accept a pretty wide variety of ammo, and .38/.357 is easily and inexpensively available. $250.

All these guns are useful as shooters and/or hunters if the civil breakdown never occurs. The bolt rifle might be a bit redundant if the repeating rifle is precise and powerful (read Garand), but I like the idea of extra weapons for arming allies and family members.

This totals $1400 for the guns. Ammo, holsters, slings, etc. will run up the cost, of course.

Mike

 

[goon]

"The bolt rifle might be a bit redundant if the repeating rifle is precise and powerful (read Garand), but I like the idea of extra weapons for arming allies and family members."

Many old full power C&R's can be boght for less than $100. I think that they might be a good choice for this purpose.
But I ain't giving my M39 Finn up to anyone.

 

[greg531mi]

The number one thing is to have enough ammo. A gun without ammo, is just a club!!! Two. Have guns that family members can shoot. A woman and kids don't like shooting a full power round. 22 long rifle, 223, 30 carbine, all good family guns. Three. Have a place to go. A cottage, cabin, within 100 miles of home, stocked with food, and good neighbors that will help, will help keep you alive. Four. Afterwards, have trade good to trade, ammo, food, services, etc. Five. There will be flea market days in the country, to trade, a good pistol for everyone in the family, is a must. Six. Other survival goods are vital, gas masks, radiation meters, plastic bags, gloves, also cold weather clothes, up here in the north country will keep you from freezing, also water and heat sources are needed. Some stranger that comes with just guns, is just a predator, and is not welcomed. You have to look at the big picture, guys!!!

 

[itgoesboom]

Wow, some of you guys could take over most of Europe with the collections that you have.

I have a pretty small collection at this point;

1- SKS with 400 rounds of ammo
1- Mossberg 500 with roughly 100 rounds of ammo
1- Bersa .380 with less than fifty rounds of ammo (almost all of it is loaded into mags).

So i guess that would be my bare minimum. Shotgun for dealing with threats inside the house. The pistol for dealing with threats when i don't have a rifle or shotty. And the rifle for anything within 200 yards.

In addition to this, i am planning "inherting" my step-dads .22 rifle, and purchasing a Glock 36 as a new CCW. Plus i think i would like to get my wife something that she can handle pretty easily....probably a Kel-tec sub-2000.

Honestly though, how do you guys plan on carrying all of those weapons? Figure each rifle weighs between 6-10lbs, plus ammo, plus food, water, shelter, firstaid equipment...ect ect ect.

I figure i would take the SKS, give the shotgun to my wife, and i would carry the pistol.

I.G.B.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

If the situation were anything like bugging out, the most I could see per person is 1 long gun, 1 hand gun, whichever the person was most comfortable/competent with (but maybe the handguns could be similar caliber/model). Example, to move out with the arsenal that most people have here, it might look something like (using a hypothetical family of shooters as an example):
Dad: Scoped rifle, concealable handgun
Teenager: Carbine/MBR
Teenager: Garand
Mom: Shotty and service pistol
.22 goes to whoever has the least weight in ammo and other gear.
Anyone who plans on actually takin the amount of weapons in these posts with them on their own in a bugout is kidding them selves, but if you're teaming up, then it might be an option (it also means that each individual member needs only, at most a rifle, pistol, and .22 plus ammo for same, which keeps the cost down)

 

[Manny]

My choices, for all uses, not just SHTF.
-CZ 452 Ultra Lux in .22 lr, hunting, target & fun
-Benelli M1 S90 Practical, awsome firepower within 100 yards or so, accurate with slugs or shot. Not best choice for wing shooting but ghost ring sights are deadly with slugs or shot for turkey.
-M1 Garand in .308, High power shooting, deadly accurate to many hundreds of yards
-1911 gov't w/ .22 conversion, carry piece, practice, fun with .22.
Any more would be gravy, these would get me through.
Manny

 

[Poohgyrr]

OK, I've reread the original question, and it doesn't say I hafta travel or anything, this is for home. And nothin about limited funding, although most posts don't mention the really, really expensive stuff, like a couple of mini-guns, say in both .223 & .308. Those things would lay down some serious firepower ......

But, in good fun, I'll restate my choices to the following: a tanker Garand in .308 and a Hi Power for me. The other family members also get two each, depending on their abilities to perform with their choices. Hopefully we have some compatibility with ammo and parts. I still like the idea of two or three mini guns though ....