A couple Mosin Nagant questions

[mhdishere]

Looking at all the pictures here has gotten me wanting a Mosin Nagant or two, and I thought I'd ask your folks a couple questions.

First, how do you pronounce that? Mo-SIN NAG-ant? Some Russian pronounciation I could only approximate?

Second, I'm thinking of getting both a rifle and carbine, and there seem to be a couple variations on each, there are a couple different armories, plus a hex or round reciever, plus the M38 or M44 carbines. I'm only interested in shooters, I'm not thinking of collector value at all. I'll probably leave them just the way they come, no new stocks or whatever unless something is damaged. Are there any advantages to one over the other? More than two, one rifle and one carbine isn't in the cards now, and I'm only thinking in terms of both because they are so cheap.

Are there English manuals available for these rifles?

Lastly, to my fellow New Jerseyans, can anyone recommend a dealer in NJ, preferably near Bergen County, where I could either get such rifles or who would do the transfer? NJ doesn't allow direct shipment, even to a C&R licensee.

 

[jefnvk]

I was taught to pronounce it as mo-ZEEN na-gaan.

I have seen some real nice looking M38 and M44's that were produced after the war. 1945 and 1946. It seems that many of these rifles never got used, as the SKS and AK popped up.

The hex recievers are going to be on the old 91/30's, IIRC, they were produced until 1936.

My advice is to just browse over them, if possible, and take the ones that look the best. If you have a Dunhams around you, they usually stock a good variety of the different models.

 

[foghornl]

"Noisy Magnet"

I have a 1954 vintage (Romanian variant, I think...it isn't here in front of me) M-44 carbine.

A real [ahem...bad pun intended] "Blast" to shoot...quite a fireball, and LOUD. Particularly with the 180-Gr 'heavy ball' ammo, or the Barnaul Arsenal 200-Gr soft-point. Easier on the shooter with the 147-150 Gr 'light ball' ammo

 

[Cosmoline]

I've owned most of the variations, and by far my favorites are the Finnish 91's and 91/30's. They're like the Russians, only more accurate. The M-39's are also very nice and are still quite cheap. Among the Russians there are still some good M-91's on the market but they're getting harder to find. The US made ones which were never shipped are often in excellent condition. The 91/30's are here in their millions and will never run out. There are some pre-war examples that are nice shooters and very well made, but the ones after 1942 tend to be rough and tumble, with rough metal work and furniture-leg stocks. If yuo can find a hex receiver Tula 91/30 with a mirror bore it will probably be just as good as any Finn.

The M-44 carbines tend to be quite heavy in the hand and have a barrel-heavy balance that annoys me. The M-38's were better designed and were intended as a carbine, not as a replacement for any rifle. Their balance is very good and recoil isn't too bad.

I'd go with a nice Finn long rifle and an M-38 carbine if you want a combo. Get your M-38 from Aztec since they seem to have the best right now (unless they're already sold out, which they might be).

 

[noonanda]

First, how do you pronounce that? Mo-SIN NAG-ant? Some Russian pronounciation I could only approximate?

Mozeen Nagaan

Second, I'm thinking of getting both a rifle and carbine, and there seem to be a couple variations on each, there are a couple different armories, plus a hex or round reciever, plus the M38 or M44 carbines. I'm only interested in shooters, I'm not thinking of collector value at all. I'll probably leave them just the way they come, no new stocks or whatever unless something is damaged. Are there any advantages to one over the other? More than two, one rifle and one carbine isn't in the cards now, and I'm only thinking in terms of both because they are so cheap.

If you want a great shooter, these rifles are definately the ones. You may want a M-91/30 (long rifle) or a Finnish M-39 (excellent shooter but more expensive) and a M-38 or M-44. For carbines I have one of each, my favorite is the M-38, it IMHO handles better due to the lighter weight due to lack of bayonet. The M-44 is fun too, but Ive got my M-38 set up for a non-permanent scout scope and am planning on using it for Deer this year.

As far as collectability goes, all of these rifles if kept in original condition (ie not cut down or not permanently altered) will increase in value. Plus these rifles do have alot of historic value. The M-38s and M-91/30 didnt sit in an armory somewhere while hitler invaded russia. These rifles kicked some Nazi butt all the way to berlin.

There is a wealth of info on these rifles on the following websites



http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/
http://p077.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm25

These two sites will have most of the info you need. But both of these sites are also against sporterization of the mosin nagant so dont go there asking "how do I cut down the barrel on my M-44 and how do I bend the bolt" They do not allow sporterization topics. Shoot me an email at
[email protected] and I'll send you some documents I have on these rifles.

 

[mhdishere]

Thanks for the help and the links folks! Now I won't walk into a gun shop, and if they have any Mo-SIN NAG-ants and get blank looks. I'm going to try some shops in my area to see if they have any, if not I'll have to get them mail-order and shipped to an FFL. My nearest gun-shop/sporting-goods place is Ramsey Outdoor, I'll try there first.

Jefnvk: I never heard of Dunhams, but I'll check the phone book and the Web.

Noonanda: Thanks for the offer of the documents, I'll try to e-mail you from home tonight so you can send them there. I'm not planning on any bubbaizing beyond fixing whatever needs to be fixed to make them shoot. I decided a long time ago (when I started shooting bullseye with revolvers, including .22) that race guns don't do it for me. If I can't hit what I need to hit with iron sights on a rifle that was good enough for a soldier to carry then I'm (a) shooting at something too small, (b) shooting too far, or (c) need to practice more.

 

[Ivy Mike]

The Mosin-Nagant rifle or Vintovka Mosina was a compilation of designs from Capt. Mosin of the Russian army and Leon Nagant of Belgium.

I've always heard is pronounced Mozeen-Nagaant

The nice thing about these is the price. They aren't real pretty nor do they come with nifty doo-dads that others might. These are designed to fire everytime and everytime they certainly do fire. At least mine has.

I picked up an M44 a few months ago and already have 400 rounds through it. Mine is dated 1944 and everything but the stock was pristine. The stock had a few semi-deep scratches and gouges in it. The arsenal also must have hung it by a string and dipped it in varnish. I sanded mine down, filled the deep gouges and scratches and applied a very light reddish stain. I protected the outside with a few coats of polyurethane. The rifle looks brand new. My buddy offered to buy it from me before I told him how easy it is to purrty them up yourself.

 

[Cosmoline]

One word of warning--the serious collectors view any attempt to sand and spruce up the stock as destroying the rifle's value. So if you have a valuable Finn or other rare subtype, don't do it. Collectors prefer the nasty old greasy black stocks that look like they were finished with vegetable oil circa 1942

 

[RON in PA]

Paladin Press has an English translation of the Soviet manual for the 91 series; the 91/30, the 1938 and the 1944. It's by Gebhardt and is a most excellent read.

 

[jefnvk]

Dunhams is just a big chain sports store we have around here. I don;t know really where they have locations at, but they usually stock the cheaper surplus imports. People around here like to use them as a cheap deer rifle.

 

[jefnvk]

No Dunhams in NJ. There are some in PA, but I don't know the rules with guns in NJ, or even if you are close to any. http://www.dunhamssports.com/corp/index.jsp?page=storeLocator&state=PA

 

[Mr. H]

Considering a M44

I already have an SKS yugo 59/66. I'm considering getting a M44 was wondering if having both is redundant not a collector just to have for a little plinking at the range from time to time. Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Feanaro]

I'd recommend the 1938 over the 44. Both are nice but the extra weight of the perma-tached bayonet ruins the balance. The carbines KICK, nothing horrible to me, but some people find it painful. Their is also a large muzzle flash and a satisfying sound that I can only describe with the word "cannon." I like that sort of thing... some don't. A recoil pad wouldn't hurt.

 

[Doug S]

Mr H,

You'd probably find yourself spending a lot more time at the range plinking with the SKS than you would a Mosin Nagant Carbine. Although surplus ammo is cheap for both calibers, the SKS is an intermediate range caliber & much easier on the shoulder. Not to mention that the semi-auto is just more fun for most people when it comes to plinking. I have a couple of Mosins & SKS, & I wouldn't trade either model, but when I go to the range I almost always take an SKS while the Mosins usually stay in the safe. That doesn't mean that a lot of people do not enjoy the Mosin at the range, but I would say that most Mosin users are "target" shooting, not plinking. You can easily put a couple of hundred rounds through your Yugo, without your shoulder noticing. Try that with one of the Mosin carbines & doubt that you could say the same. Recoil is not excessive, but it is noticable (about like 30-06). I would select the Mosin for hunting purposes or target shooting, the SKS for plinking & defense.

mhdishere,

I like both of the carbine models, but agree with the others that the 38 is noticably lighter & better balanced. I would prefer either of the carbines to the 91-30 because of the handy size. That said, I've read that the 91-30 is easier to carry than either a Mauser or Enfield even with the extra length. For serious target shooting, the 91-30 would probably be better suited. If you are not interested in the bayo, go with the 38 over the 44. It might be a little easier to find a minty 44 than a 38 though. Also harder to find a 38 in the original stock. It's 3 in the morning, & I believe I'm starting to ramble. Goodnight

 

[PAC 762]

You'll find plenty to choose from here: http://www.valleyforgegunshow.com/