A Different Old S&W .38

[wcwhitey]

Careful there, Mos’. Last time I suggested a modern I-Frame Smith or Pocket frame Colts, the 9mm Pocket Rocket Committee lectured me ad nauseum about the constant threat of being set upon by roving bands of heavily armed Ninjatsu warriors. But I agree and will add that even a .32Long top break tucked into the top of a boot could be a lifesaver if you accidentally disturb a cottonmouth and don’t have a sharp stick handy. Heck, I’d buy one just for pesky vermin’s.

I think that’s what is missing in the personal protection arena at the moment. The super light weight J frames that are engineered genius but ergonomic nightmares for all but the trained and not recoil sensitive. The tiny .380’s that do well but are not for the new or untrained shooter. They leave an opening. A simple small I frame or like the Op’s revolver in a moderate cartridge simple to operate, easy to carry and maintain would do well in my humble opinion on the current market. A simple 5 shot revolver 1) Get 2) the 3) f**k 4) off 5) me revolver is needed.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I think that’s what is missing in the personal protection arena at the moment. The super light weight J frames that are engineered genius but ergonomic nightmares for all but the trained and not recoil sensitive. The tiny .380’s that do well but are not for the new or untrained shooter. They leave an opening. A simple small I frame or like the Op’s revolver in a moderate cartridge simple to operate, easy to carry and maintain would do well in my humble opinion on the current market. A simple 5 shot revolver 1) Get 2) the 3) f**k 4) off 5) me revolver is needed.

Honestly, even something like .25 Auto or .32 Auto would do well, in a top break. Short enough case to truly throw em clear, enough of a rim to extract/eject using the current design with minimal modification, and centerfire, which is world's better than any rimfire cartridge. And the .25 Auto was *designed* specifically to reproduce the ballistics of a .22LR from a snub barreled gun while being centerfire. The .32 Auto would only be better. No fancy Hornady XTP bullet or high dollar hollow point, just need someone to make an old school .25 caliber or .32 caliber full wadcutter, heavy for caliber; think 50grn for the .25 and 80 or 90 for the .32

 

[Mr. Mosin]

@wcwhitey I contacted NAA. As expected, they denied my request, but stated they'd "run it by their engineer". I'm seriously wanting an upscaled Ranger II now, lol. Same size of a J frame, 6 shot .32 Auto or 7 shot .25 Auto, spur trigger, keep NAA's proprietary birds-head grip, but ship with square butt grips.

 

[wcwhitey]

https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=zScE-0EkDueHHM

Freedom Arms was on the edge of something cool with this, a modern Velodog revolver. With today’s metallurgy and maybe a little size increase good things could happen

 

[Mr. Mosin]

https://www.google.com/search?q=cas...8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=zScE-0EkDueHHM

Freedom Arms was on the edge of something cool with this, a modern Velodog revolver. With today’s metallurgy and maybe a little size increase good things could happen

I've seen those, but honestly never thought much of them. A good design, and quality; to be sure. Except I prefer the spur trigger. Wouldn't mind something the size of a '63 Remington pocket in .32 Auto or some such.

 

[wcwhitey]

My take is that the old small caliber revolvers fit a niche. It was a time where most people felt the need to be armed like today. But they wanted a simple means of doing so. Metallurgy and black powder cartridges were limited. However, the technology and designs were pretty sound. No reason to not adapt a good design to a modern cartridge to fill the same need.

As an edit: I am not a fan of the .25, nor do I see any manufacturer loading a .38 S&W or similar to reasonable pressure for liability reasons. But the .32 H&R yes, .32 ACP which is semi rimmed yes. I am not sure about the rim in .380, moon clips maybe?

 

[Mr. Mosin]

My take is that the old small caliber revolvers fit a niche. It was a time where most people felt the need to be armed like today. But they wanted a simple means of doing so. Metallurgy and black powder cartridges were limited. However, the technology and designs were pretty sound. No reason to not adapt a good design to a modern cartridge to fill the same need.

As an edit: I am not a fan of the .25, nor do I see any manufacturer loading a .38 S&W or similar to reasonable pressure for liability reasons. But the .32 H&R yes, .32 ACP which is semi rimmed yes. I am not sure about the rim in .380, moon clips maybe?

In all practical honesty... a Centennial Smith would do what we are describing... it has for absolute decades.

 

[pairof44sp]

Honestly, even something like .25 Auto or .32 Auto would do well, in a top break. Short enough case to truly throw em clear, enough of a rim to extract/eject using the current design with minimal modification, and centerfire, which is world's better than any rimfire cartridge. And the .25 Auto was *designed* specifically to reproduce the ballistics of a .22LR from a snub barreled gun while being centerfire. The .32 Auto would only be better. No fancy Hornady XTP bullet or high dollar hollow point, just need someone to make an old school .25 caliber or .32 caliber full wadcutter, heavy for caliber; think 50grn for the .25 and 80 or 90 for the .32

I just found out 32 acp will shoot out of my .32 revolvers just fine. And I have 90g wadcutter bullets around. So I am going to follow your suggestion. Now I want to find moonclips that will hold 7 rounds of 32acp and get the revolvers milled

 

[mnrivrat]

I just found out 32 acp will shoot out of my .32 revolvers just fine.

They shoot and extract well out of my .32 H&R. They have to much chamber pressure to be fired from older guns in .32 S&W Long I-frame revolvers. A rimmed .25 up to .32 caliber with extended case length may be something to look at ? I also prefer an exposed hammer gun, with spur trigger in a I-frame size gun. A titanium built gun with top break could be a good starting point.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

They shoot and extract well out of my .32 H&R. They have to much chamber pressure to be fired from older guns in .32 S&W Long I-frame revolvers. A rimmed .25 up to .32 caliber with extended case length may be something to look at ? I also prefer an exposed hammer gun, with spur trigger in a I-frame size gun. A titanium built gun with top break could be a good starting point.

I came up with a cartridge for this- .251 TCR.

Fires a 55gr. LFP .251 bullet at 1157 fps. for 163 ft./lbs from a 3-1/2" barrel.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

A simple small I frame or like the Op’s revolver in a moderate cartridge simple to operate, easy to carry and maintain would do well in my humble opinion on the current market.

Howdy

Something like this?

Smith and Wesson 38 Regulation Police.

Five shot 38 S&W (not 38 Special) revolver built on the I frame.






This photo shows the comparative sizes of a typical K frame S&W and a 32 Regulation Police. The 32 Regulation Police was exactly the same as the 38 Regulation Police, except it was a six shooter chembered for 32 S&W Long. Otherwise, exactly the same size. The K frame is a 32-20 Hand Ejector.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I just found out 32 acp will shoot out of my .32 revolvers just fine. And I have 90g wadcutter bullets around. So I am going to follow your suggestion. Now I want to find moonclips that will hold 7 rounds of 32acp and get the revolvers milled

Eh... are you sure you wanna follow *my* suggestions ?

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I came up with a cartridge for this- .251 TCR.
View attachment 1009625
Fires a 55gr. LFP .251 bullet at 1157 fps. for 163 ft./lbs from a 3-1/2" barrel.

What's the TCR stand for, and is that black powder ?

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

What's the TCR stand for, and is that black powder ?

Tinker Centerfire rimmed, and no, it's not Black Powder; the conversion cylinder and barrel are half-hard
4140 and can take the pressure easily.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Tinker Centerfire rimmed, and no, it's not Black Powder; the conversion cylinder and barrel are half-hard
4140 and can take the pressure easily.

When I was working in aerospace we referred to 4140 as arsenal steel. Cuts like butter; hardens like carbon. I have a “Baby Remington” pattern .31 front loader I considered getting the conversion cylinder for but the cost is a little more than I can do for a short range toy. That Colt rework is excellent! Makes me miss having a real lathe. And the time to use it.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

When I was working in aerospace we referred to 4140 as arsenal steel. Cuts like butter; hardens like carbon. I have a “Baby Remington” pattern .31 front loader I considered getting the conversion cylinder for but the cost is a little more than I can do for a short range toy. That Colt rework is excellent! Makes me miss having a real lathe. And the time to use it.

Nothing like being able to make almost anything you want or need on a large/mill

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Nothing like being able to make almost anything you want or need on a large/mill

Ordnance steel, arsenal steel, chrome-moly steel... all names for the 41x series steel alloys used to make gun barrels and various other things that are made from alloyed hard steel. It's been close to forty years but I still can't say exactly what we were making in that shop with those steels. But, yes, it was fun and enlightening.

Sometimes I miss it. Then I count my fingers and toes and realize the radio is at max volume and I still can't hear it - and then I don't miss it quite so much.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Ordnance steel, arsenal steel, chrome-moly steel... all names for the 41x series steel alloys used to make gun barrels and various other things that are made from alloyed hard steel. It's been close to forty years but I still can't say exactly what we were making in that shop with those steels. But, yes, it was fun and enlightening.

Sometimes I miss it. Then I count my fingers and toes and realize the radio is at max volume and I still can't hear it - and then I don't miss it quite so much.

4140.... high carbon isn't it ? Ive *always* had trouble remembering the alloys. Real good at ID'ing em with a Metabo and spark pattern though... mostly